Members MikeDB Posted June 2, 2008 Author Members Report Posted June 2, 2008 Welcome aboard Mike. I think I've seen your work before on a British Blades, site, yes ?I make a few of these as well, and enjoy seeing other people's approach. I've found a food grade silicone product that I use for lining some of my pieces. It's rated for temperatures well above boiling water, so it's unlikely anyone would put any drink in it that it can't handle. Plus the silicone can handle strong spirits. Of course, it's wildly inauthentic I do a little 12 ounce size that makes a great flask. Historically these things had a huge size range. When you're making these, I assume you've got a bunch of them ready to go into the wax before you go spending all that time and energy melting that big pot of beeswax I need to find myself a large double boiler like yours. Right now what I've got really isn't quite up to my needs. Thanks for sharing your tutorial, you do a great job of presenting the process. Thanks Peter, Yes, some of my work is over on BritishBlades. In the historical record there is indeed a vast array of sizes for bottels, made to individual spec or just regional variation so it's almost impossible to make a standard. I usually go for multiples of the pint as it's a fairly easy size for someone to imagine. The one in the tutorial is actually a two pint bottel. I try to have any cuir work ready in batches as it makes it a lot easier time wise for dipping. You're right in thinking the double boiler takes a while, approx 2 - 3 hours to get up to dipping speed so to speak. The one I've shown in the pictures is about 15ltrs but I will end up using something bigger if I'm dipping something like full or half size bombards as I prefer to completley immerse the item. The downside to something like a 4 or 8 pint bombard is removing it from the boiler, you end up trying to juggle with a very hot and fairly soft jug full of molten wax - It can be painful! Cheers Mike Quote
Members Thorpe Posted June 20, 2008 Members Report Posted June 20, 2008 I'm looking at bottle making and will be using this tutorial as my bible to do so, just a fewquestion however... 1) Only beeswax...how does that stand up to hot/warm beverages? 2) Thoughts on Paraffin wax? 3) I heard mixing the 2 waxes...Paraffin and Beeswax increases strength.. have you found this to be true at all or simply an un-needed step in the process? 4) brewer's Pitch seems to be the only sealer of sorts for hot beverages..is there an alternative ? Quote
Members MikeDB Posted June 20, 2008 Author Members Report Posted June 20, 2008 I'm looking at bottle making and will be using this tutorial as my bible to do so, just a fewquestion however... 1) Only beeswax...how does that stand up to hot/warm beverages? 2) Thoughts on Paraffin wax? 3) I heard mixing the 2 waxes...Paraffin and Beeswax increases strength.. have you found this to be true at all or simply an un-needed step in the process? 4) brewer's Pitch seems to be the only sealer of sorts for hot beverages..is there an alternative ? No problem, I only use beeswax as it's more accurate historically speaking for the vessels I make, brewers pitch came along later. Waterproofing vessels was accomplished in several ways. As the skin side of hide is most naturally waterproof it was used as the inside of the vessel. The outside of the vessel would be rubbed with animal fat in earlier periods and later with either beeswax or boiled birch tree sap. Birch sap turns black when boiled and from its application to the outside of a jack came the phrase "Blackjack" which was adopted as a generic name for most types of drinking vessel. As time progressed only the inside of the vessel was waterproofed. Again beeswax was used, but beeswax was very expensive. Birch sap was used until, more recently, it was replaced with Brewers Pitch None of these are suitable for use with hot liquids. I don't use paraffin wax for food items although either paraffin wax on it's own or mixed with beeswax is good for armour depending on its application and the hardness of the finished item you require. To give an example the bottle in the pictures is hard enough to stand on. Hardness is really a product of the cuir process as a whole and mostly down to the correct soaking and drying of the hide, the wax really acts as a replacement for the water in the hide and a waterproofing barrier. The longer you dry your leather, the harder it will be. Eventually, there will be no moisture in the leather at all, and it can crack when hit. Not good for armour! There are two ways to avoid this. The first is to know when to stop drying the leather (trial and error I'm afraid). The second is to wax the leather. You can do this in a few ways, either the immersion method I've detailed or you can use an oven. You still have to stop drying the leather at the right time though. Once you have dried the leather out in an oven, coat it in Paraffin wax, and put it back into the oven to soak in. The wax replaces the water, makes the leather a little more flexible, and creates a waterproof barrier. More importantly, paraffin forms a crystalline matrix within the leather fibres as it cools adding to the overall strength of the piece. Hope some of that helps. Cheers & good ale! Mike Quote
Members Jimnx Posted June 22, 2008 Members Report Posted June 22, 2008 An Excellent Tutorial, and very informative, especially the historical aspects. Thanks for sharing this. regards Jim-nx Quote Jim Xuan "For the things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by doing them." Aristotle
Members BillM Posted June 23, 2008 Members Report Posted June 23, 2008 Mike, that is an excellent history and step-by-step guide to making a leather bottell. Just the kind of information I look for in a project. I also like the Crimean War leather jack you made that you show in the topic labeled "Leather Mugs and Rings". I have been wanting to learn how to make one of these jacks. Is it safe to assume that similar steps are taken to make one as with your leather bottell? A cuir bouilli project? I am looking to make one for a 1700 to 1720 time period -- something that would have been common in English dockside taverns. I think this kind of pattern was used even before 1700, but correct me if I'm wrong. I'm still trying to find information about them and how to construct them. Did they make them in pint capacities? Do you know of any paper patterns and history for them? I would enjoy seeing you do another step-by-step guide on one of these jacks with history and patterns again. I would really benefit from that. I'm been having a difficult time finding good information about making these. It would also be a challenging leather project for me. Thank you for your assistance and consideration. -Bill Indianapolis, Indiana USA Quote
Members MikeDB Posted June 30, 2008 Author Members Report Posted June 30, 2008 Mike, that is an excellent history and step-by-step guide to making a leather bottell. Just the kind of information I look for in a project.I also like the Crimean War leather jack you made that you show in the topic labeled "Leather Mugs and Rings". I have been wanting to learn how to make one of these jacks. Is it safe to assume that similar steps are taken to make one as with your leather bottell? A cuir bouilli project? I am looking to make one for a 1700 to 1720 time period -- something that would have been common in English dockside taverns. I think this kind of pattern was used even before 1700, but correct me if I'm wrong. I'm still trying to find information about them and how to construct them. Did they make them in pint capacities? Do you know of any paper patterns and history for them? I would enjoy seeing you do another step-by-step guide on one of these jacks with history and patterns again. I would really benefit from that. I'm been having a difficult time finding good information about making these. It would also be a challenging leather project for me. Thank you for your assistance and consideration. -Bill Indianapolis, Indiana USA Bill, First of all, thanks for the kind words. Some answers to your questions.....and sorry for the delay. Been off away for a weeks fishing! The overall pattern is very common, certainly, as far as I know, used in the period you mention. It's actually pretty much similar to an Elizabethan bombard so the pattern and certainly the technique of construcuction would have been known from at least 1500. It is easier to make than a traditional Tudor style tankard but the first pattern is a little more difficult to plan as, on the flat, it looks wrong. I've no empirical evidence for paper patterns from the period but can only summise that a pattern was used, either something in wood or, more likely in leather. I haven't done a full photo session on making a traditional Jack but if you want some more detail then feel free too drop me a PM and I will try to help. Mike Quote
Members Saltator Posted August 31, 2008 Members Report Posted August 31, 2008 Mike . Thank you for this wonderful article. Any additional info on the "welt" part of this would be gratefully recieved. Very magnanimous of you to share your hard earned expertise in this way. Many thanks Tom Dance (Saltator) Quote
Members PaganBear Posted July 24, 2009 Members Report Posted July 24, 2009 BUMPING.. cause I'm re-new and thats what new does Mike, excellently written tutorial. This is something im interested in trying out and I have found a few books and other articles on it. is there any way to get the pictures rehosted or uploaded? Thanks, - Bear Quote - Corey "Bear" PaganBear Leatherwork
Members iwannabeacowboy Posted August 31, 2009 Members Report Posted August 31, 2009 I also would like to see the pictures reloaded. Great info, but the old saying"a picture is worth a thousand words" applies. Thanks Charlie Quote I'm never to old to learn about all the things life brings along.
Members Petsha Posted September 1, 2009 Members Report Posted September 1, 2009 too bad the pictures are gone Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.