Making a Leather Bottle

[MikeDB]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this or if it's ok for someone new to post such a thing but I thought some may be interested.

A very non-definitive guide to how I make a leather bottle.

This bottle is based on the ones recovered from the wreck of the Mary Rose.

Bottles like this were commonly in use in Great Britain from the 11th century to the beginning of the 17th and hopefully this will be an example of traditional wax cuir bolli (soaked in boiling beeswax to create a great strength within the leather and a waterproof and fairly easily maintainable finish.

It starts out with a paper pattern and some 3.5mm (ish) veg tan shoulder

I have a master pattern in card but use paper on actual cutting.

Cut out the two halves and then the welt.

Some of the recovered bottles only had a partial welt, it seems to preserve the round shaping of the neck but I have found that the full welt not only adds much to the strength but also, when combined with a narrow edge prevents any warping of the leather.

The above shows the two halves and welt glued and the stitching pattern marked out with an adjustable groover. You need to be a little more creative with the stitch marks around the handle sections, just a matter of care, time and patience.

If I'm going to add any decoration I scribe in the design at this stage, be very careful not to go through the surface of the hide, if you do it can split open when it wet moulded.

Once I have got this far and am happy that it looks ok I mark the handle holes and cut them out. Now it's looking more like a bottle, hopefully!

Now it's off to the bath. I soak a bottle this size in several changes of hot water for a couple of hours, at least until the leather stops fizzing.

Pointless picture of leather fizz….

Once I'm happy the leather is pliable enough it's time for shaping. I used to use sand but found it a bit of a pain really and now use pearl barley. It's still traditional and much easier to remove from the item.

Packing the barley take a bit of time and the judicious use of a length of dowel to make sure it takes the shape you are after. It's a fair effort too, a guide being that if you push hard enough to break the dowel then that's too hard!

You also need to take care that you don't mark the surface of the leather; any scratches on it now can be a pain to remove later.

I've just used a cork to seal the top here and will now let the poor thing rest on some scrap leather till it's dry, weather permitting a couple of days. Any hint of water in the bottle can ruin the wax dipping so it's really worth waiting.

It at least looks more like the final shape now.

Well it's been 48 hrs and the bottle is near dry so just a few more steps to go in the making.

Time for a tidy up of the edges now the leather has settled a bit.

There are many methods for smoothing the cut edges but I just use a bone folder and either gum trag or saliva. (if you want to be traditional then spit works really well as the enzymes react with the leather fibres)

It's really just a matter of patience and work till you get the level of smoothness you require.

I've tried to show here how the bottle edge isn't straight, this is caused by the moulding process and sometimes the leather drying out at differing rates, however this can be corrected after the bottle is wax dipped.

After I have the edges and any handle cut outs smoothed off to the degree I want it's time to start adding colour, the process that for me starts to change the whole look of the item.

For a period looking bottle I'm going to use three oil dyes.

First a coat of mahogany then mid brown ending in a coat of dark brown. These coats are not even so when the bottle is waxed you can see a slight variation and depth of colour.

Looking more like the finished bottle now methinks. You need to bear in mind that the wax dipping will change the colour so the whole bottle will be darker when it's finished.

Next the waxing……..

Well I guess it's time for the last bits on bottle making.

Waterproofing and hardening the bottle.

I'm not going into too much on Cuir Bouilli methods of which there appear to be legion, lets just stick with dipping the finished bottle into hot liquid beeswax.

Firstly then, get yourself a reasonable amount of wax and a gert great double boiler and let it melt. For a pan of this size (13 litres) it took about 2 ½ hours to melt fully.

I usually do this on a propane burner in the workshop but to aid pictures you will have to put up with the kitchen. Always keep a fire blanket to hand chaps, while beeswax melts at a mere 62 degrees and has a flashpoint of something like 254 degrees it will still burn if ignited, think huge candle and the sort of burn injury Ivan the Terrible would classify as 'most amusing'

When the wax is melted it's really just a question of immersing the object (turn off any flames)

(As you have spent a long time and much effort to get this far I'd recommend trying a test piece first)

When the bottle is submerged in the wax any air in the leather is given off and it bubbles, possibly another route for the term boiled leather as opposed to water boiling.

You can just see in the above picture the amount of fizz generated by the bottle.

I leave the bottle in the wax till the bubbles stop, no real timing as different pieces and different leather thickness will change the immersion time.

Once the bubbles have stopped remove the bottle carefully. Although it was fairly rigid from the wet moulding it will now be pliable and a tad hot! Wipe away any excess beeswax while it's still hot, much easier than trying to remove it when it cools and leave the bottle to cool.

When the bottle is cool enough to hold but still fairly warm you can turn your attention to coating the inside and the seams. I simply use a funnel and pour some of the liquid wax into the bottle, keep the bottle moving to swill the wax around.

After you have built up a goodly coating of wax on the inside of the bottle let it cool off totally before you test it for leaks. Filling it with cold water too early can cause the wax to crack.

After it's cooled off I just fill with cold water to test it. If that's all ok then I fill it and leave it full for 24 hours just to be sure.

All that's left now is some polishing and fitting of a stopper.

I've seen many types of stopper fitted to period bottles, some roughly carved from wood, others more elaborate and made from rolled leather.

I've just added a rudimentary wooden one here but may well change that, anyhow, it looks a little different from the flat and undyed shape of earlier.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and suffering my rambles.

Cheers

Mike

[Luke Hatley]

Mike the "BOTTEL" LOOKS GREAT. I HAD FORGOT HOW MUCH IS INVOLVED IN MAKIN ONE.

HAVE YOU LINED ANY OF THEM WITH"BREWERS PITCH"?

[TomBanwell]

A really great tutorial! Thanks so much for posting that. I learned a lot from it. Very detailed and complete.

[MikeDB]

Thanks for the positive comments.

I don't line the flasks with pitch just the beeswax. I've used brewers pitch a couple of times in tankards but I prefer the hardness the cuir gives, also there is some argument over the food safety on pitch in the EU so many clients won't use the finished article even if it's more in keeping with the period of the item they have chosen.

Mike

[Beaverslayer]

Mike, this tutorial is great. an excelent post for just showing up here. This is what makes this site the best on the net. Thanks so much for taking the time to do this and share with all of us.

Ken

[Spider]

This is BEAUTIFUL!!! WOW

[Luke Hatley]

MIKE THE WOODEN STOPPER , WILL IT CAUSE A LOT OF WEAR ON THE BEES WAX LINING, THE NECK OF THE BOTTELL ?

Edited May 21, 2008 by Luke Hatley

[Regis]

Welcome Mike. And, that is one great treat to lean how to make these.

Regis

[Myriam]

Wow, super great tutorial, Mike! Thanks for posting. Valuable information in here.

[wildrose]

That is beautiful, and I loved reading how you made it. I met Frank Zigon at shows and he does leather bottles too. I think it's such a fascinating topic. What really made me laugh though was when you said about using spit/saliva. I actaully "discovered" that when edging a project recently - it works great! Better than plain water, that's for sure!

[cem]

Thankyou for showing your process Mike, I had been interested in making leather bottles after seeing an article in an old leather working magazine unfortunately though it was missing a page so your tutorial has throughly filled in the gaps.

Cheers,

Clair

[MikeDB]

MIKE THE WOODEN STOPPER , WILL IT CAUSE A LOT OF WEAR ON THE BEES WAX LINING, THE NECK OF THE BOTTELL ?

It will eventually cause some erosion of the wax lining but nothing that cannot be field repaired with a lighted taper.

I've seen a few examples of rolled leather being used as a stopper but I think the wear would be similar.

Ultimately these pieces are not as tight as say a modern screw-cap so would have need to have been carried upright.

That is beautiful, and I loved reading how you made it. I met Frank Zigon at shows and he does leather bottles too. I think it's such a fascinating topic. What really made me laugh though was when you said about using spit/saliva. I actaully "discovered" that when edging a project recently - it works great! Better than plain water, that's for sure!

Saliva works really well, a mix of enzyme and sugars I guess. On other items such as belts etc I'd use gum trag but I couldn't find any empirical evidence for this on the period pieces, hence the spit

I'm happy you all found it an interesting read. Thankyo to everyone for the kind comments to a new member.

Cheers

Mike

[tazzmann]

Wow! that is soooooooo cool! I take it the bottle can be scaled down somewhat? Maybe even do away with the handles and make it more the size of a beer bottle

Also, when you put it in the beeswax, I take it you take the stopper out of it, so why do you need to re-put beeswax in it again? Shouldn't the inside already be sealed from the dip?

Edited May 23, 2008 by tazzmann

[walletman]

hi mike welcome nice bottle but were did you get so much bees wax ? i am looking for so local and no look were in uk you from? walletman (bob)

[MikeDB]

Wow! that is soooooooo cool! I take it the bottle can be scaled down somewhat? Maybe even do away with the handles and make it more the size of a beer bottle

Also, when you put it in the beeswax, I take it you take the stopper out of it, so why do you need to re-put beeswax in it again? Shouldn't the inside already be sealed from the dip?

Thanks. Yes, scaling down is no problem, neither is altering the shape. It's only when things get too big for the dip tank you have issues.

Yes, the stopper is not there when the vessel is dipped. When cuir is taken out of the wax it is not only hot but also pliable. When it cools it's then very tough stuff. The wax is impregnated into the leather so it doesnt really need a secondary inner coat, other than to add additional sealing to any seams however most cuir vessels were given a second, inner coat. It adds to any integrity and, looking at the historical record it aids any field repair as the wax can crack (gertainly in very cold conditions) and can then be re-sealed with a lighted taper.

hi mike welcome nice bottle but were did you get so much bees wax ? i am looking for so local and no look were in uk you from? walletman (bob)

Hi Bob,

It's not always easy to find beeswax in that quantity and it's expensive too. I buy mine 25kgs at a time.

I'll dig out the supplier and PM you a link.

UK wise I'm from sunny Hampshire but now live on a farm in East Yorkshire.

Mike

[tazzmann]

Kewl. Thanks for the info. I may have to try and make one of these. I have a supplier of beeswax about a mile from my house and it is not really all that expensive for a three pound block from them, so I may have to play with this some. Looks fascinating!

[Jordan]

better stock up, as they (scientific community) are saying all the cell phone use is decimating the bee population. I also heard they are going to release another report saying after years of study breathing is bad for you, eggs are good for you and coffee is the nectar of the gods, sheesh what will they spend our money on next?

[tazzmann]

Apparently all the cell phone use has pushed them to my neighborhood. I have seen more honey bees in my neck of the woods this year than any other year since living in the Northwest. They are almost a nuisance.

There are several bee farms about five miles north of my house. In talking to them, they are mainly paid for their use in pollination for greenhouses and gardeners. The honey and beeswax are a natural bi-product, which they almost give away to those that know how to process it. One of these "Processors" is where I get my supply of beeswax, honey, bee pollen and any other "bee" made items. She is a very nice old lady that has her store on her property. She has everything from beeswax to honey to special honey marinades which range in flavor from "Sweet Teriyaki" to "Smokey Honey Habenero". If it can be made from bees, she probably has it.

[DJole]

Oh, bravo! That's beautiful! That's the best illustrated tutorial I've seen. It makes me want to go out and try one right away!

[Peter Ellis]

Welcome aboard Mike. I think I've seen your work before on a British Blades, site, yes ?

I make a few of these as well, and enjoy seeing other people's approach. I've found a food grade silicone product that I use for lining some of my pieces. It's rated for temperatures well above boiling water, so it's unlikely anyone would put any drink in it that it can't handle. Plus the silicone can handle strong spirits.

Of course, it's wildly inauthentic

I do a little 12 ounce size that makes a great flask. Historically these things had a huge size range.

When you're making these, I assume you've got a bunch of them ready to go into the wax before you go spending all that time and energy melting that big pot of beeswax

I need to find myself a large double boiler like yours. Right now what I've got really isn't quite up to my needs.

Thanks for sharing your tutorial, you do a great job of presenting the process.

[MikeDB]

Welcome aboard Mike. I think I've seen your work before on a British Blades, site, yes ?

I make a few of these as well, and enjoy seeing other people's approach. I've found a food grade silicone product that I use for lining some of my pieces. It's rated for temperatures well above boiling water, so it's unlikely anyone would put any drink in it that it can't handle. Plus the silicone can handle strong spirits.

Of course, it's wildly inauthentic

I do a little 12 ounce size that makes a great flask. Historically these things had a huge size range.

When you're making these, I assume you've got a bunch of them ready to go into the wax before you go spending all that time and energy melting that big pot of beeswax

I need to find myself a large double boiler like yours. Right now what I've got really isn't quite up to my needs.

Thanks for sharing your tutorial, you do a great job of presenting the process.

Thanks Peter,

Yes, some of my work is over on BritishBlades.

In the historical record there is indeed a vast array of sizes for bottels, made to individual spec or just regional variation so it's almost impossible to make a standard. I usually go for multiples of the pint as it's a fairly easy size for someone to imagine.

The one in the tutorial is actually a two pint bottel.

I try to have any cuir work ready in batches as it makes it a lot easier time wise for dipping. You're right in thinking the double boiler takes a while, approx 2 - 3 hours to get up to dipping speed so to speak. The one I've shown in the pictures is about 15ltrs but I will end up using something bigger if I'm dipping something like full or half size bombards as I prefer to completley immerse the item. The downside to something like a 4 or 8 pint bombard is removing it from the boiler, you end up trying to juggle with a very hot and fairly soft jug full of molten wax - It can be painful!

Cheers

Mike

[Thorpe]

I'm looking at bottle making and will be using this tutorial as my bible to do so, just a fewquestion however...

1) Only beeswax...how does that stand up to hot/warm beverages?

2) Thoughts on Paraffin wax?

3) I heard mixing the 2 waxes...Paraffin and Beeswax increases strength.. have you found this to be true at all or simply an un-needed step in the process?

4) brewer's Pitch seems to be the only sealer of sorts for hot beverages..is there an alternative ?

[MikeDB]

I'm looking at bottle making and will be using this tutorial as my bible to do so, just a fewquestion however...

1) Only beeswax...how does that stand up to hot/warm beverages?

2) Thoughts on Paraffin wax?

3) I heard mixing the 2 waxes...Paraffin and Beeswax increases strength.. have you found this to be true at all or simply an un-needed step in the process?

4) brewer's Pitch seems to be the only sealer of sorts for hot beverages..is there an alternative ?

No problem,

I only use beeswax as it's more accurate historically speaking for the vessels I make, brewers pitch came along later.

Waterproofing vessels was accomplished in several ways.

As the skin side of hide is most naturally waterproof it was used as the inside of the vessel.

The outside of the vessel would be rubbed with animal fat in earlier periods and later with either beeswax or boiled birch tree sap.

Birch sap turns black when boiled and from its application to the outside of a jack came the phrase "Blackjack" which was adopted as a generic name for most types of drinking vessel.

As time progressed only the inside of the vessel was waterproofed. Again beeswax was used, but beeswax was very expensive. Birch sap was used until, more recently, it was replaced with Brewers Pitch

None of these are suitable for use with hot liquids.

I don't use paraffin wax for food items although either paraffin wax on it's own or mixed with beeswax is good for armour depending on its application and the hardness of the finished item you require. To give an example the bottle in the pictures is hard enough to stand on. Hardness is really a product of the cuir process as a whole and mostly down to the correct soaking and drying of the hide, the wax really acts as a replacement for the water in the hide and a waterproofing barrier.

The longer you dry your leather, the harder it will be. Eventually, there will be no moisture in the leather at all, and it can crack when hit. Not good for armour!

There are two ways to avoid this.

The first is to know when to stop drying the leather (trial and error I'm afraid).

The second is to wax the leather. You can do this in a few ways, either the immersion method I've detailed or you can use an oven. You still have to stop drying the leather at the right time though. Once you have dried the leather out in an oven, coat it in Paraffin wax, and put it back into the oven to soak in.

The wax replaces the water, makes the leather a little more flexible, and creates a waterproof barrier. More importantly, paraffin forms a crystalline matrix within the leather fibres as it cools adding to the overall strength of the piece.

Hope some of that helps.

Cheers & good ale!

Mike

[Jimnx]

An Excellent Tutorial, and very informative, especially the historical aspects.

Thanks for sharing this.

regards

Jim-nx

[BillM]

Mike, that is an excellent history and step-by-step guide to making a leather bottell. Just the kind of information I look for in a project.

I also like the Crimean War leather jack you made that you show in the topic labeled "Leather Mugs and Rings". I have been wanting to learn how to make one of these jacks. Is it safe to assume that similar steps are taken to make one as with your leather bottell? A cuir bouilli project?

I am looking to make one for a 1700 to 1720 time period -- something that would have been common in English dockside taverns. I think this kind of pattern was used even before 1700, but correct me if I'm wrong. I'm still trying to find information about them and how to construct them. Did they make them in pint capacities?

Do you know of any paper patterns and history for them?

I would enjoy seeing you do another step-by-step guide on one of these jacks with history and patterns again. I would really benefit from that. I'm been having a difficult time finding good information about making these. It would also be a challenging leather project for me.

Thank you for your assistance and consideration.

-Bill

Indianapolis, Indiana USA