Making a Leather Bottle

[MMArmoury]

Here is my next attempt, along side my first. Neither is finished, the first one as I said is my "mistake" prototype, I will use it first at each stage, lining the inside is next. For my second attempt I tried a new shape (I am making several shapes), this was was thinner leather at 8-9oz and fresher (the other had been lying out in the sun in the car for months, that's why it's darker, a natural tan). This time it was much more flexible, I got it to expand to twice the amount of the first piece. I roughly measured the volume to about 4/5ths of a quart, or 750ml, a practical size I estimate. I have to harden it next, don't know if I should re-soak it in hot water. Then to sand the edges and line the interior.

Edited June 4, 2010 by MMArmoury

[MMArmoury]

Any more thoughts on the use of welts in the construction? I'm having a tough time deciding whether to start making them with welts.

[Luke Hatley]

I did not see the need for a welt in mine.

as for as the color, when you line it with the Beeswax the inside will be sealed

so you would not be getting a taste of the dye.

[MMArmoury]

Finally finished my first ones! I already sold some this weekend and they were a hit, lots of interest in them.

[druid]

Good God Almighty...

these are FANTASTIC! Even those who say they were "mistakes"...awesome work!

Those looking for plates of beeswax, there's a local shop here in town that sells it: http://www.moravianbookshop.com/

Give them a call or write...I'm sure they can help you out.

[MMArmoury]

Good God Almighty...

these are FANTASTIC! Even those who say they were "mistakes"...awesome work!

Those looking for plates of beeswax, there's a local shop here in town that sells it: http://www.moravianbookshop.com/

Give them a call or write...I'm sure they can help you out.

Why thank you. I added hemp rope straps which I don't have pics of yet. My second batch should be even better, they will be finished in about a month. Eventually I hope to be adding custom turned wood stoppers. How does white oak sound for stoppers? I think they would look good with these "English" style "bottels".

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I wouldn't use oak for stopper due to porosity, and tannins. I would use maple, or birch, that is if I was to use wood. Being a machinist, I would probably turn some metal stoppers.

[hivemind]

Going to make one of these tomorrow, now that I have a sewing machine. I think I'm going to use whitetail antler for a stopper.

[Leather Bum]

I archived this topic back when it was first started (May 2008) including the pictures, and I think I've placed the them in the correct locations here. If any of the Administrators wants to edit the original post, I can supply the images. . . (they even appear to be full size.)

I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this or if it's ok for someone new to post such a thing but I thought some may be interested.

A very non-definitive guide to how I make a leather bottle.

This bottle is based on the ones recovered from the wreck of the Mary Rose.

Bottles like this were commonly in use in Great Britain from the 11th century to the beginning of the 17th and hopefully this will be an example of traditional wax cuir bolli (soaked in boiling beeswax to create a great strength within the leather and a waterproof and fairly easily maintainable finish.

It starts out with a paper pattern and some 3.5mm (ish) veg tan shoulder

I have a master pattern in card but use paper on actual cutting.

Cut out the two halves and then the welt.

Some of the recovered bottles only had a partial welt, it seems to preserve the round shaping of the neck but I have found that the full welt not only adds much to the strength but also, when combined with a narrow edge prevents any warping of the leather.

The above shows the two halves and welt glued and the stitching pattern marked out with an adjustable groover. You need to be a little more creative with the stitch marks around the handle sections, just a matter of care, time and patience.

If I'm going to add any decoration I scribe in the design at this stage, be very careful not to go through the surface of the hide, if you do it can split open when it wet moulded.

Once I have got this far and am happy that it looks ok I mark the handle holes and cut them out. Now it's looking more like a bottle, hopefully!

Now it's off to the bath. I soak a bottle this size in several changes of hot water for a couple of hours, at least until the leather stops fizzing.

Pointless picture of leather fizz….

Once I'm happy the leather is pliable enough it's time for shaping. I used to use sand but found it a bit of a pain really and now use pearl barley. It's still traditional and much easier to remove from the item.

Packing the barley take a bit of time and the judicious use of a length of dowel to make sure it takes the shape you are after. It's a fair effort too, a guide being that if you push hard enough to break the dowel then that's too hard!

You also need to take care that you don't mark the surface of the leather; any scratches on it now can be a pain to remove later.

I've just used a cork to seal the top here and will now let the poor thing rest on some scrap leather till it's dry, weather permitting a couple of days. Any hint of water in the bottle can ruin the wax dipping so it's really worth waiting.

It at least looks more like the final shape now.

Well it's been 48 hrs and the bottle is near dry so just a few more steps to go in the making.

Time for a tidy up of the edges now the leather has settled a bit.

There are many methods for smoothing the cut edges but I just use a bone folder and either gum trag or saliva. (if you want to be traditional then spit works really well as the enzymes react with the leather fibres)

It's really just a matter of patience and work till you get the level of smoothness you require.

I've tried to show here how the bottle edge isn't straight, this is caused by the moulding process and sometimes the leather drying out at differing rates, however this can be corrected after the bottle is wax dipped.

After I have the edges and any handle cut outs smoothed off to the degree I want it's time to start adding colour, the process that for me starts to change the whole look of the item.

For a period looking bottle I'm going to use three oil dyes.

First a coat of mahogany then mid brown ending in a coat of dark brown. These coats are not even so when the bottle is waxed you can see a slight variation and depth of colour.

Looking more like the finished bottle now methinks. You need to bear in mind that the wax dipping will change the colour so the whole bottle will be darker when it's finished.

Next the waxing……..

Well I guess it's time for the last bits on bottle making.

Waterproofing and hardening the bottle.

I'm not going into too much on Cuir Bouilli methods of which there appear to be legion, lets just stick with dipping the finished bottle into hot liquid beeswax.

Firstly then, get yourself a reasonable amount of wax and a gert great double boiler and let it melt. For a pan of this size (13 litres) it took about 2 ½ hours to melt fully.

I usually do this on a propane burner in the workshop but to aid pictures you will have to put up with the kitchen. Always keep a fire blanket to hand chaps, while beeswax melts at a mere 62 degrees and has a flashpoint of something like 254 degrees it will still burn if ignited, think huge candle and the sort of burn injury Ivan the Terrible would classify as 'most amusing'

When the wax is melted it's really just a question of immersing the object (turn off any flames)

(As you have spent a long time and much effort to get this far I'd recommend trying a test piece first)

When the bottle is submerged in the wax any air in the leather is given off and it bubbles, possibly another route for the term boiled leather as opposed to water boiling.

You can just see in the above picture the amount of fizz generated by the bottle.

I leave the bottle in the wax till the bubbles stop, no real timing as different pieces and different leather thickness will change the immersion time.

Once the bubbles have stopped remove the bottle carefully. Although it was fairly rigid from the wet moulding it will now be pliable and a tad hot! Wipe away any excess beeswax while it's still hot, much easier than trying to remove it when it cools and leave the bottle to cool.

When the bottle is cool enough to hold but still fairly warm you can turn your attention to coating the inside and the seams. I simply use a funnel and pour some of the liquid wax into the bottle, keep the bottle moving to swill the wax around.

After you have built up a goodly coating of wax on the inside of the bottle let it cool off totally before you test it for leaks. Filling it with cold water too early can cause the wax to crack.

After it's cooled off I just fill with cold water to test it. If that's all ok then I fill it and leave it full for 24 hours just to be sure.

All that's left now is some polishing and fitting of a stopper.

I've seen many types of stopper fitted to period bottles, some roughly carved from wood, others more elaborate and made from rolled leather.

I've just added a rudimentary wooden one here but may well change that, anyhow, it looks a little different from the flat and undyed shape of earlier.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and suffering my rambles.

Cheers

Mike

Edited February 7, 2011 by Leather Bum

[hivemind]

Hah! You're the ######ing MAN! Well done!