Question Regarding Round Knife

[Chef niloc]

Bill IMHO is one of ( if not the) best makers out there today. From his hunting knives to his kitchen knives this maker turns out nothing but top end work.

[Vivaldi]

I came across this older thread while researching ways to sharpen my round knife and I found many extremely useful references and tips.

I have decided to try the slack belt sharpening system as referenced by Bruce Johnson earlier in this thread. However, if I use the belt system for sharpening and I create the convex (Moran) edge on my knife, can anyone tell me if I also need to do my stroping with a leather belt on the belt sander, or can I strop with leather on a wooden board? Or does it matter?

I am thinking if I strop with leather on a wooden board after using the belt system, the stroping will tend to flatten out the convex edge. Any information from experienced round knife sharpeners would be greatly appreciated.

[Art]

I use both the hollow ground and the convex edge types, it just depends on the knife. I accomplish both of these edgen on the same belt grinder. Sometimes when out of the shop and the grinder isn't available, a secondary flat edge can be applied. The secondary edge can also be applied if a really sharp/acute angle is desired, however the durability of the edge will suffer. My skiving knives are purely flat edges.

Now to your question. Stropping will seldom remove much metal, it is designed to true the edge that is there and remove any scratches. You have to learn to apply the same angle for any stropping stroke and maintain that angle throughout the stroke. There is the tendency to pitch the angle up at the end of the stroke in anticipation of flipping the knife over and stropping the other side. This should be avoided of course. So, the type of edge has little effect on how you strop or the effectiveness of the stropping. Most knives I have seen have a secondary flat edge on them, and this is actually a good thing, as not many folks haul a belt grinder around with them. You can apply a secondary flat edge to a convex or hollow ground (or flat edged) knife in the field with good results and any knifemaker should be expecting that to happen.

Secondary edges are very common, especially in hollow ground knives, and generally all knives once they have been sharpened. Knives sharpened to a hollow ground edge are usually less than durable (e.g. straight razor). Convex knives sharpened to a single primary convex edge tend to have a greater angle for an edge you can chop down a tree with, but maybe wouldn't want to use to shave (arm hair is one thing, a beard is a little more difficult).

This is probably a little more info than you wanted.

Art

[Vivaldi]

Thanks Art. Your info makes perfect sense and I find if very helpful.

[Tannin]

Interesting thread. I'm in a similar position to the original poster. My current thinking is to get a head knife about 4-4.5" - influenced by Al Stohlman's tool book. I currently live in the UK, so would likely buy a new Joseph Dixon knife (they are still making/selling a full range of them ) or something similar by another English maker (e.g. Barnsley). However, if Amazon.com would let me*, I would order the super-cheap "Abetta Round Knife - 6 X 4 1/2" from the USA - just to learn with; I have quite a lot of experience sharpening tools now and am willing to put in the time to create & maintain a good edge.

*By agreement with the UK government Amazon & eBay block the sale of most knives, apparently including head/round knives, to the UK. Although they allow the sale of other leather knives if they are labelled as "tools" rather than "knives" and they allow draw-knives - which are correclty recognised as a non-weapon knife/tool, as head/round knives should be IMHO). Seems unfair, as other vendors are allowed to sell them.

Interesting to read the recommendation to use a convex edge (as typically used on axes & bush knives for robust edges). For flat ground ("Scandi-grind") edges, I wonder if a little oil (or glycerine or water) on the leather and/or blade might help?

BTW Has anyone made a laminated steel round/head knife (e.g. hard middle layer for the cutting edge with softer sides for robustness & easy sharpening e.g. rockwell 58/61/58), like some Scandinavian knives?

Edited July 26, 2014 by Tannin

[Art]

In it's usual application, the convex edge is really a primary bevel. This leaves a maximum amount of metal behind the edge, giving a little more support. While I can get most knives really sharp with the convex bevel, it seldom stays that way because the edge will eventually have to be sharpened and a flat bevel will generally be applied. The secondary bevel is pretty much the norm on most knives unless the knifemaker wants to up "through the belts" to get the convex edge finish they want. This goes for the hollow ground edge also.

Art

[Tannin]

Art, in addition to the "slack belt" approach mentioned earlier in the thread, for grinding a convex edge - I came across another technique which might be more convenient for day-to-day hand sharpening, which is to use wet&dry paper (e.g. 600 grit) glued to a surface that gives, an old computer mouse pad is often suggested. I suppose you could also use a strop with some give too. [This is the opposite advice to that typically given for maintaining a flat/Scandi grind.]

BTW the laminated Swedish steel I mentioned above is, I believe, made in sheets (saw a youtube video on the production of the Mora/Frost knives, which are stamped out of sheets). If you could get it, then it might be enough to cut out the blade & tang shape and then grind the cutting edge.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Tannin

[Tannin]

...My current thinking is to get a head knife about 4-4.5" - influenced by Al Stohlman...would likely buy a new Joseph Dixon knife (they are still making/selling a full range of them ) or something similar by another English maker (e.g. Barnsley).

In the end, I ordered a 5" "saddler's round knife" by George Barnsley, Sheffield, England (possibly NOS i.e. New Old Stock). I have a couple of Barnsley tools already & like them.

[Tannin]

In the end, I ordered a 5" "saddler's round knife" by George Barnsley, Sheffield, England (possibly NOS i.e. New Old Stock). I have a couple of Barnsley tools already & like them.

Received the Barnsley round knife from LePrevo last weekend. The blade rang like a bell when I removed it from its cardboard blade guard, which sent shivers down my back! It arrived sharp - cut through 4mm saddle leather like the proverbial "hot knife through butter" - so I have just stropped it for now. Early days but delighted with it so far.

[alexitbe]

Hi Tannin,

How is the Barnsley knife? Are you still happy with it? Is it possible to get a four inch one?

Cheers

ALex