Branded Chinese Machines

[Art]

The Chinese government also keeps the Renminbi (Chinese Dollar) closely linked to the US Dollar to give their country an unfair trade advantage. If you were really paying a market price, the cost of those machines would be half again higher. Oh they will release the Renminbi as soon as they totally destroy the US manufacturing capability and the once mighty US manufacturing engine is gone, as long as we hold on to what we have, we are still a threat and their currency will remained locked.

Art

20-30 yrs ago all we had to sell were the Adlers & Juki's @ around $4,800.00 now let me ask..how many people here would pay that much for a 12" machine today?

WHEN you can buy a machine for 1/2 the price w/a 16" arm that still will sew as thick as the Adler or Juki?Price sells I haven't sold a new Juki or Adler in maybe 7 yrs.

8 yrs ago I had some used Juki 441's & we sold the for $3,500.00 ea(they were real nice)but I doubt if I could get that for them today.

SO the big question will the new Chinese machine last like the old Singers,Juki's & Adlers,only time will tell but if they last for 25yrs you'd still be ahead of the game.

It would be great if somehow machines could be made here & they can except I'm 100% positive they would be at least $6,000.00 or more & considering Adlers aren't selling @ $5,000.00 anymore I don't think it's worth trying to build machines here.

It also seems like most people are shopping price nowadays too.Heck I can't even sell a good used home machine for $50.00 because Walmart has new clunkers for $69.00

they won't last 6mon & people realize what they get after they take it back a couple of times or call me & I tell them I can't work on them because I know how there built & know they'll bring it back in a couple of days.needing retimed.

There is difference in quality of machines coming from China & Walmart sells on price only,along with alot of the machines on ebay are the low quality type. & most Dealers on this board are selling quality machines that have been checked over before they are shipped.

SO that's my $.02

Bob

[CowboyBob]

Art,

I agree with you on this,They have a master plan the same as someone else started in 1936 and the are suceeding w/o a war.........yet!

Bob

Edited July 31, 2011 by sewmun

[Singermania]

HI guys, I'm going to stick with what I have said, the price is less the quality is less. Does it matter??? I don't really know, the machines will still probably out live us. I think it was Al that said the design was important, but the quality of the metal no so much.... but I can't agree, would you apply that rule to your leatherwork? I doubt it, you'd go for the best leather. Lets put it this way, when I was growing up my dad had a builders wheel barrow that was in and out of all sorts of weather and carted concrete, bricks, fire wood etc, I remember that wheel barrow being there right thru my living at home time, about 20 years, by the end it was beaten up and patched but was still going... my dad died before that wheelbarrow.. Last year I bought a Chinese wheelbarrow, I treated in like a princess, its already rusted out and sitting on my rubbish heap, it rusted so quickly and so comprehensively that there just wasn't anything left to patch. So I think there is some value in the metal.

I sold a highlead last week, it came to me with a big Adler that I was chasing. The person that bought it had a Sunstar, exactly the same machine, he used it to sew caravan awnings and was very pleased with it... and so grabbed my Highlead when he saw it advertised. Did I like it?? no not really, it had too many little chinzy looking parts for me. But the man loved it and so thats top recommendation.

As I've said, the Chinese and Indian machines are cheaper, we are not making them anymore and so what the heck, they probably outlast us anyway. I saw on another forum a saddler saying he had two Highleads and that they were wonderful, so its hard to argue with that. Al, I'd say buy the Highlead, look after it and let us know how you get on. Its ok for me to be nostalgic about the old Singers, Busmcs and Adlers, but you have a job to do so get the modern machine in your budget. Alternatively, come over to Australia for a holiday and take back one of Jim's Cowboy machines.

[Massive]

"Is that still the case?"

That's the OP's question. The answer is that is seems to still be the case that stuff bought from Chinese factories is of very inconsistent quality, and that the only ways to deal with that are to have someone over there checking each machine as it is crated, and someone over here testing each machine as it is unboxed. I have a pal who does this dance with welders. He reveives each shipment off the factory floor, and he fires up each machine when it gets here. He could probably just do it all over there if that was his only job, and he didn't live in Can. This company does probably 10-1 sales in the US, and they don't have him in the US firing up the machines. JUst the fact the US techs in this case are not quite as experienced, has resulted in the US product being a lot less consistent. So while the individual parts in the machine can be good, it takes an experienced person to take responsibility. The parts can change at any moment. The guy doing final quality control has to be a mature tech, he can't depend on everyone behind him having got it right, and just spotting the odd anomaly. He has to be able to cover all the bases.

I think this has created an opportunity for small outfits to perform in the first rank. As a consumer you take the risk that the guy you depend on may not be there. But as long as he is, the extensive hands on oversight by one guy can actually surpass what a large company is willing to do. In the old days the large company was king (and still can be). But you can also have these niche markets were particularly able techs step up and take on the whole quality control process. It is worth it for them because we are at a unique point in time where prices are tiny. mark-ups are huge, and the market has enlarged to embrace the reduction in price to the end user. It does create a cult of personality that is a little odd, but it still has a basis in fact.

The end user can respond to all this in a number of ways. The problem is that buying the unsupervised product is a bit of a rip-off. You are paying a big mark up but taking a risk. The risk is mostly worth it if you pay real wholesale. When one retailed the old stuff it was normally on the basis of a 20-50% margin. Today the margin can be 90%. So if you save say 20% going direct, you just assumed a lot of risk while only getting as little as a quarter of the margin in your pocket.. If you could save 90% of the final cost, but were faced with getting a machine you might have to modify, or re-build it would make more sense.

[Massive]

Art, can you elaborate on Oz advances in sail making machines, and any related products. PM me, please, if you think it doesn't belong in the main discussion.