Branded Chinese Machines

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

WOW!! Looks like something that came out of a local engineering shop. Oddly my comprehensive needle book lists nothing above a 47K5 and no KSV models at all. There are no equivalent WSV models either so it might be a one-off that was never listed.

buuuuuutt............... if I was setting up my upholstery business again and I had the choise of a $5800 consew K6 clone or an Asian manufactured clone at say $2500 and that came with reverse, cheap spares and great design (its a copy of a great design after all) then I'd probably buy the cheaper machine.... Lets face it I could buy two and set the other one up witha different colour or weight thread, or a welt foot etc. The US and Britain have fantastic heritage in sewing machines, the mighty Singer company spanned pretty much every country in the world, throw a dart at the map of the world and Singer was most likely there. I'm a bit old fashioned, a bit nationalistic and would like to see that heritage continued and even rebuilt. Though I sold my own old upholstery machine recently, it was Japanese, I really didn't give a thought to where it came from whilst I was using it.

Getting back to the original thread, if I was having a new machine shipped to me, I wouldn't be concerned about setting it up or adjusting it, because I can do that. Would I be worried about the quality??? if I paid half the price of a Consew or Juki (probably made in China anyway) then ...no .... I wouldn't be worried about the quality either. My advice would be to buy whatever machine appeals to you, whatever machine is in your price range, if you don't have skills buy what can be easily maintained, repaired and parts sourced ie a good dealer to back you up. If that's a Highlead, then excellent. If you want to be a bit of a collector like me and like to go out to your building and admire your antiques and tinker with them, then buy an old Singer BUSMC or Adler.

Whatever machine you have, be proud of it, its taken over a hundred years to produce it, keep it clean, oil it everyday. I've attached some pictures of my latest aquisition, its a Singer 47KSV10 extra long arm walking foot zig zag sail maker's machine with puller. I fell in love with it, these things make a great racket when they run and were really designed for the heavy old canvas days of sailing. I've never seen another, the show off in me thinks it may be the only one in existance, pls let me know if you have any knowledge of them.

[Trox]

Hi Singermania,

That was some piece of Iron; it cannot be many of those around. It is a Special Version. How long it is. Does it sew, as it should?

What about a newer (but still old) Singer 144W-305, do you still find use for them Down Under. I have a blue one that needs a life. It is no marked for them in Scandinavia. I am thinking about refurbishing it, fitting a modern motor on and exporting it to somewhere needed. It is a very good US made machine and it deserves a life. A new rotary hook and a clean, it is good as new.

About the original tread;

The Chinese and Japanese are very different people. The Japanese always take pride in producing the best quality. But the Chinese just care about making money; they never spend any and eating rice with fish sauce 7 days a week. A Chinese will never buy anything from a restaurant unless he can see they use fresh foods. That is why every restaurant in China has food on display.

The Chinese have started to buy their own product, so I feel it is safe to. This is the best indicator of good quality. Then again export machines, I will only buy from the dealers I know stand behind their machines. I will never risk buy something out of the box on EBay to save a few dollars. I do not think any Chinese would either.

Trox

[Singermania]

Hi Trox,

I've jumped the gun a bit as the machine hasn't arrrived as yet, I'm hotly awaiting its appearance. I understand it does sew. Its basically (by the look of it and by the numbers) a 47k1 cut in half with a big beam shoved in to extend it and a puller attached to help things along. I believe it would do the same job as the 47k1, that's sailmaking. Your 144W305 is a good machine, I believe they have a reverse on the treadle, thats a plus out here. The problem is I can't import just one machine at a time as the port handling, customs clearance and delivery kill the deal. If we could bypass those costs I 'd grab it in a heartbeat.

[CowboyBob]

That's a nice looking 47K you got there.It's probably a K5,I've had a few in the past & just missed buying one cheap a couple of months ago.Be careful with her as parts are like hens teeth.

Bob

[Singermania]

thanks Bob, but isn't the K5 a rope binding machine or am I thinking of the K3.. Its interesting these machines were built in small numbers, when other machines were being made in hundreds they were made in tens. I dont have the 47k yet, but the badge on the side (photo of) says 47KSV10. I used to have a 47K1 some while back and sold it to another collector and have been trying to replace it ever since. I've attached a photo of an old 47K1 for anyone interested, also another interesting photo came across recently of a shoe machine Regards Steve

[CowboyBob]

Years ago we had some K5's so maybe a K3 is for ropes-I've never seen one & didn't even hear of a K3 B4.

Bob

[Singermania]

Hi Bob, the Smithsonian has some nice pictures of the K3 sewing rope together, though I've forgotten how to access it these days. Do you do any Singer, Alder or Pfaff spares.? Regards Steve

[CowboyBob]

Steve, If your talikng about the old machines,I don't have any spare parts.We even had to make bobbins for the 47's we extended the 7 class bobbins.I'll have to poke around the Smithsonian .

[amuckart]

HI Guys, I'm hearing a lot of talk about the end result being down to the dealer?? you really think so?

That's the consistent story I'm hearing. There's one, maybe two Chinese factories producing machines that're good to go out of the box, a bunch producing stuff that's basically sound in terms of material, parts and design, but with nothing in the way of assembly QA, and a whole lot churning out utter junk. The good ones are good to go out of the box with perhaps very minor tuning, the junk is going to be junk no matter what but the stuff in the middle that's basically sound but often badly assembled can be made good by people willing to go through the assembly QA. That's where people like Cowboy Bob and Cobra Steve come in. The thing is that you can buy the same machine's they're selling through someone else and get something that's unusable, because it's the work they put in that makes the machines good, and I think there's enough evidence from people using them to show that they are good, but only if you get them from the right person.

Do you really think you are going to make a crocodile handbag out of a pig's ear? Look if the things arrive poorly adjusted, with paint missing, rough castings, moving parts that don't move then that lack of quality is going to carry on thru to the materials. The metal will be poor, the casting weak, crappy bearings. Sure a dab hand might get it going nicely, but will it be around to challenge the big old Singers and Adlers in 50 years time? But if you want a Chinese machine, then go and buy one, stop talking about it, do it. Best Regards Steve

I don't think that necessarily holds true, I think there's a class of machine made to good designs out of good materials (after all, the materials aren't exactly the difficult bit, 19th century iron and steel did just fine thanks) just badly assembled and spottily QAed at the factory. For those ones I think there's a very good chance they'll last the distance, after all they're faithful copies of good designs. They might never be as good as the Singers and Adlers were, but hell, Singer basically doesn't exist any more, and even Adlers aren't as good as Adlers used to be.

I've got a handful of 'Big Old Singers' and they're beautiful pieces of work, but they're getting on for 100 years old, and it shows.

[CowboyBob]

20-30 yrs ago all we had to sell were the Adlers & Juki's @ around $4,800.00 now let me ask..how many people here would pay that much for a 12" machine today?

WHEN you can buy a machine for 1/2 the price w/a 16" arm that still will sew as thick as the Adler or Juki?Price sells I haven't sold a new Juki or Adler in maybe 7 yrs.

8 yrs ago I had some used Juki 441's & we sold the for $3,500.00 ea(they were real nice)but I doubt if I could get that for them today.

SO the big question will the new Chinese machine last like the old Singers,Juki's & Adlers,only time will tell but if they last for 25yrs you'd still be ahead of the game.

It would be great if somehow machines could be made here & they can except I'm 100% positive they would be at least $6,000.00 or more & considering Adlers aren't selling @ $5,000.00 anymore I don't think it's worth trying to build machines here.

It also seems like most people are shopping price nowadays too.Heck I can't even sell a good used home machine for $50.00 because Walmart has new clunkers for $69.00

they won't last 6mon & people realize what they get after they take it back a couple of times or call me & I tell them I can't work on them because I know how there built & know they'll bring it back in a couple of days.needing retimed.

There is difference in quality of machines coming from China & Walmart sells on price only,along with alot of the machines on ebay are the low quality type. & most Dealers on this board are selling quality machines that have been checked over before they are shipped.

SO that's my $.02

Bob