Dying A Holster

[Sarge]

I'm a relative newbe at leather work, read online stuff about woes and problems with water based, and spirit based dyes. i.e. green streaks in tan spirit dyes, water based dyes running and ruining clothes and just looking bad from sweat or rain etc. My particular problem is uneven finishes (like dark burnished areas) around the molded areas.

So last week I took a holster that was supposed to be a right handed one (but I cut it wrong and ended up with a lefty) and I took my shoe repair shop friends advice and used a good quality shoe cream, did two coats after the first dried and was brushed and it came out beautiful (the finish, not so much the holster, I still have a lot to learn).

So, I'm asking -- what about shoe cream vss dye? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

dservati

[JC Javelle]

I'm a relative newbe at leather work, read online stuff about woes and problems with water based, and spirit based dyes. i.e. green streaks in tan spirit dyes, water based dyes running and ruining clothes and just looking bad from sweat or rain etc. My particular problem is uneven finishes (like dark burnished areas) around the molded areas.

So last week I took a holster that was supposed to be a right handed one (but I cut it wrong and ended up with a lefty) and I took my shoe repair shop friends advice and used a good quality shoe cream, did two coats after the first dried and was brushed and it came out beautiful (the finish, not so much the holster, I still have a lot to learn).

So, I'm asking -- what about shoe cream vss dye? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

dservati

I just completed my first holster this past weekend. I molded it before I dyed it (you can dye it before you mold too), using water based dyes. The only trouble that I had, was that when I molded it, I had sewn the two pieces of leather together with wax thread. I dyed the holster after I molded it, taking the two pieces apart to dye individually. After the dyes had dried, I had noticed specks. I believe the wax from the thread had rubbed into the leather, leaving pin sized specks of veg tan showing through where my dye had not grabbed the leather (I tried dying over those spots, and it didn't work). Maybe because I used a dark brown dye, quite liberally, I haven't noticed any uneven splotches otherwise.

Now, I know I am supposed to seal it with a finish (I haven't yet). If I don't, it is likely that the dye will stain or ruin if it gets wet. But I am considering playing with the holster and maybe try removing some of the dye before I do seal it. It's an experiment piece.

Edited July 6, 2011 by JC Javelle

[Sixer]

Save yourself some time and effort and pick up some Fiebings Pro Oil dyes.

I almost always apply with a sponge BEFORE I do any wet molding. If needed, I can always go back and apply more dye after wet molding as well.

What I find... Is that molding the holster FIRST typically results in certain areas becoming burnished. This makes it tough to get an even coat because the burnished areas do not accept the dye as well.

[$$hobby]

Save yourself some time and effort and pick up some Fiebings Pro Oil dyes.

I almost always apply with a sponge BEFORE I do any wet molding. If needed, I can always go back and apply more dye after wet molding as well.

What I find... Is that molding the holster FIRST typically results in certain areas becoming burnished. This makes it tough to get an even coat because the burnished areas do not accept the dye as well.

+1

this is how i do my dyeing. ive never tried the shoe polish tho.

[Sarge]

I just want to say thanks for the replies, I've not tried the oil dyes, but intend to. I really like the results of the

shoe cream, it went on smooth, and even, and has a nice luster that is not too shiny. However, I do not

know how durable it will be -- we'll see after I wear it around.

Thanks again

Sarge

[katsass]

FWIW from an old grump: First and foremost, I WILL NOT USE any of the 'eco' (water based) dye stuff. Even after the stuff is dry, it'll go to .....pieces... when you go to wet mold a holster. I use nothing but Fiebing's pro oil dye and vinegaroon. I very seldom use the dye full strength......it's usually diluted down by a factor of at least 5:1 with denatured alcohol. I use the crappiest, cheap airbrush Harbor freight sells, just to cover the leather to the tone that I want. I design, mark out, cut and then dye. Then, the absolute secret ingredient!!....... let it dry for a day or so. Get off it, go play in the freeway, nibble mama's neck, contemplate your navel ...do anything, but do not allow yourself to screw with leather that you 'think' is dry.

OK, shoe cream and/or polish both contain some form of coloring agent....dye? ...maybe. Try this...polish up your test chunk of leather with Properts, Kiwi or whatever else you have running around the house/shop. I mean put a SHINE on that leather.(it doesn't matter what color, but Ox Blood seems to be a good one with which to make an impression). Wait a day or so to ensure that it's really on there and give it a final buff with a soft polishing cloth. Now go get one of Mama's favorite fine WHITE bath towels and ....buff the living daylights out of your leather with IT. (This, is of course, totally in the spirit of scientific research....make sure Mama knows this) Now, try to explain how you are going to get that color off of her favorite towel.........and I'll bet 'scientific experimentation' ain't gonna do a bit of good. Shoe polish is that...polish. Look at the bottom of the hem on your trousers....depending on the color of your shoes and how often you polish them....that's the color of the trousers hem...from the polish rubbing on it. The stuff will color your leather to an extent...but dye it is not. Best advice I can give is to use the absolute best products you can afford for a given project, (tools included) and TAKE YOUR TIME. The world will not go to pieces if you don't finish you pride and joy today...or tomorrow....but by trying to speed things up with shortcuts and incomplete procedures, your pride and joy may not be quite so much as you wished.

I'll apologise if this missive sounds a bit testy. Two weeks ago this morning my Doctor told me to stop smoking or I'd be in the hospital within 48 hrs and he'd 'TRY' to keep me breathing. I've smoked for over 50 years....2-3 packs a day. After he loaded me up with different steroids and meds, I left his office and tossed every cigarette out into the trash. Haven't had one since. BUT, I'm up at 2:00 in the morning, I cant sleep, I'm grumpy, fighting the wants, an nibbling on anything in sight.....(i even tried a Lychee,..... whatever that hell that is....didn't like it much) and doing my best not to irritate Ma Kat....(to irritate her is NOT a good idea). So, again, if it sounds like a grumpy old man wrote this....one did.....but maybe I have an excuse Mike

[Sarge]

FWIW from an old grump: First and foremost, I WILL NOT USE any of the 'eco' (water based) dye stuff. Even after the stuff is dry, it'll go to .....pieces... when you go to wet mold a holster. I use nothing but Fiebing's pro oil dye and vinegaroon. I very seldom use the dye full strength......it's usually diluted down by a factor of at least 5:1 with denatured alcohol. I use the crappiest, cheap airbrush Harbor freight sells, just to cover the leather to the tone that I want. I design, mark out, cut and then dye. Then, the absolute secret ingredient!!....... let it dry for a day or so. Get off it, go play in the freeway, nibble mama's neck, contemplate your navel ...do anything, but do not allow yourself to screw with leather that you 'think' is dry.

OK, shoe cream and/or polish both contain some form of coloring agent....dye? ...maybe. Try this...polish up your test chunk of leather with Properts, Kiwi or whatever else you have running around the house/shop. I mean put a SHINE on that leather.(it doesn't matter what color, but Ox Blood seems to be a good one with which to make an impression). Wait a day or so to ensure that it's really on there and give it a final buff with a soft polishing cloth. Now go get one of Mama's favorite fine WHITE bath towels and ....buff the living daylights out of your leather with IT. (This, is of course, totally in the spirit of scientific research....make sure Mama knows this) Now, try to explain how you are going to get that color off of her favorite towel.........and I'll bet 'scientific experimentation' ain't gonna do a bit of good. Shoe polish is that...polish. Look at the bottom of the hem on your trousers....depending on the color of your shoes and how often you polish them....that's the color of the trousers hem...from the polish rubbing on it. The stuff will color your leather to an extent...but dye it is not. Best advice I can give is to use the absolute best products you can afford for a given project, (tools included) and TAKE YOUR TIME. The world will not go to pieces if you don't finish you pride and joy today...or tomorrow....but by trying to speed things up with shortcuts and incomplete procedures, your pride and joy may not be quite so much as you wished.

I'll apologise if this missive sounds a bit testy. Two weeks ago this morning my Doctor told me to stop smoking or I'd be in the hospital within 48 hrs and he'd 'TRY' to keep me breathing. I've smoked for over 50 years....2-3 packs a day. After he loaded me up with different steroids and meds, I left his office and tossed every cigarette out into the trash. Haven't had one since. BUT, I'm up at 2:00 in the morning, I cant sleep, I'm grumpy, fighting the wants, an nibbling on anything in sight.....(i even tried a Lychee,..... whatever that hell that is....didn't like it much) and doing my best not to irritate Ma Kat....(to irritate her is NOT a good idea). So, again, if it sounds like a grumpy old man wrote this....one did.....but maybe I have an excuse Mike

Thank you for the info. You don't sound like an old grump, but I'll take your word for it. I vaguely remember your situation, I quit smoking in 1963. What is vinegaroon? When I was stationed at Ft. Bliss in TX a vinegaroon was a big bug. The dilution factor is 5 parts dye, I part alky, right? You are right about the polish, even after much polishing a little bit still comes off. I will be trying Fiebings oil dyes in the future.

Sarge

[stanly]

Thank you for the info. You don't sound like an old grump, but I'll take your word for it. I vaguely remember your situation, I quit smoking in 1963. What is vinegaroon? When I was stationed at Ft. Bliss in TX a vinegaroon was a big bug. The dilution factor is 5 parts dye, I part alky, right? You are right about the polish, even after much polishing a little bit still comes off. I will be trying Fiebings oil dyes in the future.

Sarge

vinegroon is old time concoction made by disolving iron in vinegar (simple explanation), got search?

I'll just go ahead and say that w/ 5 parts of dye u probably would not see much diff. between full strength.

If you're going to continue experimenting.... there are shoe Dyes.

[katsass]

OK Sarge, Vinegaroon, vinegar black, and a couple of other names for the stuff, is a home made substance which uses acetic acid (vinegar) into which ferrous metal is dissolved. I use 0000 steel wool which I torch pretty well to get rid of any and all oil and/or wax. I cut up about 4 pads of the stuff and dump it in a gallon of vinegar. In a couple of weeks you can strain off any residuals and have a jug of nasty looking s#$%$ that turns veg tanned leather black...almost instantly, and all of the way through from front to back. It started as far back as the 1600's...some say earlier, but it is the best black for leather I know of, and without any 'rub-off'. There is a bit more to using it, but that's the basic idea. I personally do not take too well to the crawling type of 'roon'.... seems to me that if you got one PO'd....the damned thing might go fer yer throat!

The dilution factor for my use of Oil Dye is 5 parts alcohol to 1 part dye. One of my formula's for (as close as my memory will allow me to put things together) the OLD Russet color of leather that came from the tannery way back when is: 30cc alcohol; 6cc Saddle Tan Pro oil dye; 2 1/2cc Dark Brown Pro oil dye. Squirt it smoothly over the leather with an airbrush and this is what you get. (pic) (one finished and one unfinished) Hope this helps a bit. Playing with mixing and diluting dye can produce a pot load of effects and shades. Mike

P.S. That sure as Billy-be-damned 'taint MY hands in the pic of that critter!!!

Edited July 7, 2011 by katsass

[Sarge]

Wow! I sure like the color of those holsters, as well as the holsters. I am sure going to use your formula and even do some research and experimenting myself.

Plus, I hop to do as fine work as you do, if a 74 yr old coot can learn how. Thank you for your time and advice.

Sarge

OK Sarge, Vinegaroon, vinegar black, and a couple of other names for the stuff, is a home made substance which uses acetic acid (vinegar) into which ferrous metal is dissolved. I use 0000 steel wool which I torch pretty well to get rid of any and all oil and/or wax. I cut up about 4 pads of the stuff and dump it in a gallon of vinegar. In a couple of weeks you can strain off any residuals and have a jug of nasty looking s#$%$ that turns veg tanned leather black...almost instantly, and all of the way through from front to back. It started as far back as the 1600's...some say earlier, but it is the best black for leather I know of, and without any 'rub-off'. There is a bit more to using it, but that's the basic idea. I personally do not take too well to the crawling type of 'roon'.... seems to me that if you got one PO'd....the damned thing might go fer yer throat!

The dilution factor for my use of Oil Dye is 5 parts alcohol to 1 part dye. One of my formula's for (as close as my memory will allow me to put things together) the OLD Russet color of leather that came from the tannery way back when is: 30cc alcohol; 6cc Saddle Tan Pro oil dye; 2 1/2cc Dark Brown Pro oil dye. Squirt it smoothly over the leather with an airbrush and this is what you get. (pic) (one finished and one unfinished) Hope this helps a bit. Playing with mixing and diluting dye can produce a pot load of effects and shades. Mike

P.S. That sure as Billy-be-damned 'taint MY hands in the pic of that critter!!!

[flintlock]

I'm a relative newbe at leather work, read online stuff about woes and problems with water based, and spirit based dyes. i.e. green streaks in tan spirit dyes, water based dyes running and ruining clothes and just looking bad from sweat or rain etc. My particular problem is uneven finishes (like dark burnished areas) around the molded areas.

So last week I took a holster that was supposed to be a right handed one (but I cut it wrong and ended up with a lefty) and I took my shoe repair shop friends advice and used a good quality shoe cream, did two coats after the first dried and was brushed and it came out beautiful (the finish, not so much the holster, I still have a lot to learn).

So, I'm asking -- what about shoe cream vss dye? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

dservati

Vinigaroon has already been mentioned. Here are a couple more: tobacco plug soaked in amonia and walnut hulls. Make darn sure you wear rubber gloves, especially with the walnut or you will wear it on your hands for about six weeks! Both are excellent stains, as is vinigaroon.

Edited July 18, 2011 by flintlock

[TexasJack]

This thread is worth reading just for katsass's contributions! (Though I must admit I'm not quite sure how that bug figures into the equation.)

Katsass, stay off them coffin-nails! We need your ornery self posting on here!

[Sarge]

Vinigaroon has already been mentioned. Here are a couple more: tobacco plug soaked in amonia and walnut hulls. Make darn sure you wear rubber gloves, especially with the walnut or you will wear it on your hands for about six weeks! Both are excellent stains, as is vinigaroon.

Thanks flintlock, next time I've got some nice pieces of scrap I'll give this a try. How much amonia? a quart?, 1/2 doz of shells? or just experiment?

And thanks again for the warning about rubber gloves.

Sarge

[Sarge]

This thread is worth reading just for katsass's contributions! (Though I must admit I'm not quite sure how that bug figures into the equation.)

Katsass, stay off them coffin-nails! We need your ornery self posting on here!

Yeah, katsass does have interesting comments and well as being helpful. The bug was by my instigation, as I did not understand vinigaroon, except

for the huge bug I was introduced to while stationed at Ft. Bliss back in the 50's.

Sarge

[Sarge]

Katsass

FWIW from an old grump: First and foremost, I WILL NOT USE any of the 'eco' (water based) dye stuff. Even after the stuff is dry, it'll go to .....pieces... when you go to wet mold a holster. I use nothing but Fiebing's pro oil dye and vinegaroon. I very seldom use the dye full strength......it's usually diluted down by a factor of at least 5:1 with denatured alcohol. I use the crappiest, cheap airbrush Harbor freight sells, just to cover the leather to the tone that I want. I design, mark out, cut and then dye. Then, the absolute secret ingredient!!....... let it dry for a day or so. Get off it, go play in the freeway, nibble mama's neck, contemplate your navel ...do anything, but do not allow yourself to screw with leather that you 'think' is dry.

OK, shoe cream and/or polish both contain some form of coloring agent....dye? ...maybe. Try this...polish up your test chunk of leather with Properts, Kiwi or whatever else you have running around the house/shop. I mean put a SHINE on that leather.(it doesn't matter what color, but Ox Blood seems to be a good one with which to make an impression). Wait a day or so to ensure that it's really on there and give it a final buff with a soft polishing cloth. Now go get one of Mama's favorite fine WHITE bath towels and ....buff the living daylights out of your leather with IT. (This, is of course, totally in the spirit of scientific research....make sure Mama knows this) Now, try to explain how you are going to get that color off of her favorite towel.........and I'll bet 'scientific experimentation' ain't gonna do a bit of good. Shoe polish is that...polish. Look at the bottom of the hem on your trousers....depending on the color of your shoes and how often you polish them....that's the color of the trousers hem...from the polish rubbing on it. The stuff will color your leather to an extent...but dye it is not. Best advice I can give is to use the absolute best products you can afford for a given project, (tools included) and TAKE YOUR TIME. The world will not go to pieces if you don't finish you pride and joy today...or tomorrow....but by trying to speed things up with shortcuts and incomplete procedures, your pride and joy may not be quite so much as you wished.

I'll apologise if this missive sounds a bit testy. Two weeks ago this morning my Doctor told me to stop smoking or I'd be in the hospital within 48 hrs and he'd 'TRY' to keep me breathing. I've smoked for over 50 years....2-3 packs a day. After he loaded me up with different steroids and meds, I left his office and tossed every cigarette out into the trash. Haven't had one since. BUT, I'm up at 2:00 in the morning, I cant sleep, I'm grumpy, fighting the wants, an nibbling on anything in sight.....(i even tried a Lychee,..... whatever that hell that is....didn't like it much) and doing my best not to irritate Ma Kat....(to irritate her is NOT a good idea). So, again, if it sounds like a grumpy old man wrote this....one did.....but maybe I have an excuse Mike

Hi, Katsass, I followed your suggestion on the towel experiment and found it to be true. So I took Tandy's Super Sheen, (because that's all I had) and applied two coats, allowing a few hours for drying in between. Tried the towel again, and none rubbed off. Then I set a sweating glass of iced tea on it for 1 hour of condensation running down the side onto the leather, and there was no water staining marks or other visible marks.

As good fortune would have it, a friend of mine gave me a 3 gallon pancake compressor and a cheap air brush that he had and never used. I just have to get the right adapters to hook the air brush to the compressor, that's probably why he never used it.

Sarge

[katsass]

Katsass

Hi, Katsass, I followed your suggestion on the towel experiment and found it to be true. So I took Tandy's Super Sheen, (because that's all I had) and applied two coats, allowing a few hours for drying in between. Tried the towel again, and none rubbed off. Then I set a sweating glass of iced tea on it for 1 hour of condensation running down the side onto the leather, and there was no water staining marks or other visible marks.

As good fortune would have it, a friend of mine gave me a 3 gallon pancake compressor and a cheap air brush that he had and never used. I just have to get the right adapters to hook the air brush to the compressor, that's probably why he never used it.

Sarge

OK Sarge....hope Ma didn't get too upset trying to remove the shoe polish from the towel. Something to think about.... Tandy's Super Sheen costs somewhere around $5.00 for 4 oz. If you go to the local grocery store and spend about the same amount for a quart of Mop and Glo (floor cleaner/polish), you'll have more leather finish than you can ever use. Mix the stuff 50/50 with water and use just as Super Sheen. I've been using it for years. It actually is about the same stuff...an acrylic finish which penetrates the leather and does a pretty good job of sealing the leather. As to the little compressor, most airbrushes are set to use about 40PSI so I wouldn't let that pancake compressor go to full blast of around 100 PSI. Check to see if it has a regulator on it or figure out a bleed-off to keep the pressure down. Mike

[Sarge]

OK Sarge....hope Ma didn't get too upset trying to remove the shoe polish from the towel. Something to think about.... Tandy's Super Sheen costs somewhere around $5.00 for 4 oz. If you go to the local grocery store and spend about the same amount for a quart of Mop and Glo (floor cleaner/polish), you'll have more leather finish than you can ever use. Mix the stuff 50/50 with water and use just as Super Sheen. I've been using it for years. It actually is about the same stuff...an acrylic finish which penetrates the leather and does a pretty good job of sealing the leather. As to the little compressor, most airbrushes are set to use about 40PSI so I wouldn't let that pancake compressor go to full blast of around 100 PSI. Check to see if it has a regulator on it or figure out a bleed-off to keep the pressure down. Mike

Hi Katsass,

Here I am thanking you again for the info on the super sheen, sure to save me some money, which on a fixed income is no small favor. I will get a regulator when I

find the proper fittings for the compressor, that too probably saved me in the long run. Maybe you ought to write a book (just kidding) but please be sure to post

your ideas, in just a few short posts I've learned a lot from you.

Sarge

[katsass]

Hi Katsass,

Here I am thanking you again for the info on the super sheen, sure to save me some money, which on a fixed income is no small favor. I will get a regulator when I

find the proper fittings for the compressor, that too probably saved me in the long run. Maybe you ought to write a book (just kidding) but please be sure to post

your ideas, in just a few short posts I've learned a lot from you.

Sarge

Well sarge, a close friend of mine (for over 50 years) and ex-partner has often suggested that we jot down our memories and thoughts as 'old time' LEO's and write a book.. Way back when things were different and we had the ability to act as the situation demanded and the boss figured that he hired us to take care of things as we saw fit.. That usually comes up when both of us have been consuming enough 'adult beverages' to really not give a #$%%^&*T. The kids nowadays have no #$%&^%ing idea,. what with all the backup in the wold twenty seconds away. My thoughts and ideas on leather work are just those of an amateur that has had a bit of succcess butchering some cow skins over a period of time.........Had/have a close friend (another LEO) that got tagged at fairly close range by a 12 ga. sawed off shotgun...full of bird-shot.....about a week after I built a holster for his new Colt Python at the request of his wife. It scared the #$%&^&%t out of the bad guy when he got back up and started to cap rounds back with blood running down from his upper body. He still keeps his old shooter in that holster...made circa 1970 or so. I think my thoughts may not fit with the PC current ideas. Mike

Edited July 19, 2011 by katsass