CustomDoug Report post Posted August 21, 2011 Has anyone used a modern servo motor on a typical vintage Singer 29K table base (bi-level)? Actually mine's a long arm 29K62 but I doubt that'd make any difference. What alterations to the table, base and/or motor would need to be made - if possible at all. Would there need to be some sort of offset brackets made up? Anyone got pics? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted August 21, 2011 In order for you to mount a servo motor on that machine you will need cut out the space between the existing belt holes (unless you assemble the belt with a c-clip), and drill some mounting holes in the iron base and maybe even add a wooden platform for the motor to bolt onto. I found a cheaper and easier solution for my long arm patcher, with parts I bought from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines (866-362-7397). See the photo below. The kit came with a 21 inch ribbed vinyl belt which was too short for this particular machine. That's why I used a thin leather belt. It works okay after I sprayed it with belt no slip spray. Total investment was about $100 and an hour of my time figuring out where to drill and tap the hole. The 5/16" x 18 screw was included. I have my own 1/4" drill and 5/16x18 tap. If your machine is flat across the back, you can mount the motor with the bracket facing down and use the 21 inch vinyl belt, which gives much better grip. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted August 21, 2011 Here is a picture of the same size motor, ready to be installed on a flat back patcher, in such a position as to be able to use a 21" home style no slip ribbed belt... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CustomDoug Report post Posted August 21, 2011 Wiz awesome of you to post the pics but I honestly can't completely make out what's going on - the pics are too big, could you resize them by chance? Also, is that appx. $100 besides the cost of the servo motor (you said total but I'm confused)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amuckart Report post Posted August 21, 2011 When I saw this I thought about how I'd do it, and figured as I'd pull the patcher off the stand, install a plate between the patcher and the stand sticking out the back and bolt the motor to that. From there you could rig an extension from the pittman of the stand's existing pedal to the motor control, and it's all totally reversible if you ever want to take the motor off again. You'd need to be a bit careful about the size of motor you chose though, a full-size industrial job might be too heavy, but from the looks of the ones Wiz posted pics of you don't need a big motor to drive a patcher. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfe9 Report post Posted August 21, 2011 What Wiz used on that one was a small can motor like what was on home or light duty machines (not a servo ) Like amuckart said , I always try to do things that are reversible if possible just incase I want to sell it in the future. Wiz awesome of you to post the pics but I honestly can't completely make out what's going on - the pics are too big, could you resize them by chance? Also, is that appx. $100 besides the cost of the servo motor (you said total but I'm confused)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted August 21, 2011 The motor I used is an AlphaSew 150 watt home motor. This is the most powerful motor of this type. It has a solid state foot control pedal. The only problem I have is a bit of slippage of the leather belt, until the wheel gets into motion. I am searching for a longer rubber or vinyl belt, which won't slip much at all. Once the AlphaSew motor starts the machine sewing, it keeps going until I stop it. The reduction factor is really high, going from the tiny pulley on the motor to the large pulley on the machine. The price I mentioned was everything, including the thin leather belt and C clip. But, I already had a tap to thread the hole for the bolt. The machine can still be operated by the hand wheel, even with the belt attached. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CustomDoug Report post Posted August 21, 2011 Wizcrafts the pictures are so big I can not tell about the size of the pulley on your machine.... since your handwheel is on the front - is the pulley (that the leather belt's attached to) the same size as the stock hand wheel pulley? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CustomDoug Report post Posted August 21, 2011 ..um nevermind, I think I see that it is actually the stock pulley after all - handwheel is seperated and moved to the front by itself (duh ). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CustomDoug Report post Posted August 21, 2011 I think I'll give Bob a shout and try to source some of this stuff - thanks ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted August 21, 2011 Wizcrafts the pictures are so big I can not tell about the size of the pulley on your machine.... since your handwheel is on the front - is the pulley (that the leather belt's attached to) the same size as the stock hand wheel pulley? The large pulley on the machine is 6" diameter. It is stock for this series of patcher. If you have an older model, it may have a different width pulley. The diameter of the pulley is not the most important factor. 5.5", 6"; not a big difference when the motor has a 3/4" pulley. Getting a firm grip on the motor pulley, with a leather belt, is the challenge. I am searching right now for longer home style machine belts. It appears that the embroidery machines have very long cogged 1/4" belts. If I find one that is 27 inches long I'll buy it and see if it works any better. If your patcher has a flat back and you can mount the motor directly behind the head, on top of the base, with the bracket facing down, then a 21 inch belt will fit it. I cannot mount the motor that way, without carving up the bracket, because my machine has a raised mid-section. If the slipping continues, I may have to resort to grinding off the front side of the bracket, and use a home machine belt. I think I saw a 23 incher somewhere on eBay... Here is a reduced photo of my current setup... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted August 21, 2011 I just moved my side motor up and found that it lacks one inch of being able to just connect to a 21 inch ribbed pulley (to the big pulley on the machine). Hunting for a #2214 or 2314 home machine pulley... The motor powers the machine in the smaller pulley, but groans and needs help to get into motion. Not good for the life of this motor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CustomDoug Report post Posted August 21, 2011 Wiz, are you calling the pictured setup a "side mounted" installation? I'd consider that to be mounted to the back, but maybe it depends on how you look at it? The other thing is that you're saying you can't connect to the big pulley on the machine - but it looks like it is on the big pulley to me. Confused again. Is there a larger than stock aftermarket pulley that you'd prefer and that would be easier on the motor? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amuckart Report post Posted August 21, 2011 Wiz, you might have better luck with the small-diameter hollow urethane tubing from McMaster Carr. I use it on my treadle machines. It's more flexible than leather and has a bit of tack to it that helps it grip the pulleys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted August 21, 2011 Wiz, are you calling the pictured setup a "side mounted" installation? I'd consider that to be mounted to the back, but maybe it depends on how you look at it? The other thing is that you're saying you can't connect to the big pulley on the machine - but it looks like it is on the big pulley to me. Confused again. Is there a larger than stock aftermarket pulley that you'd prefer and that would be easier on the motor? The leather belt was on the big pulley. The vinyl belt is too short, so I just ordered a 23 inch cogged belt. I may also go for a cogged pulley with a 1/4" diameter hole. This will require me to relocate the motor to just behind the body, on top of the rear platform. It will also require me to drill and tap a second hole, to adjust the tension on the new belt. Right now it is on the back side of the platform. Wiz, you might have better luck with the small-diameter hollow urethane tubing from McMaster Carr. I use it on my treadle machines. It's more flexible than leather and has a bit of tack to it that helps it grip the pulleys. Would you have a link to the product page for that tubing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amuckart Report post Posted August 21, 2011 Wiz, www.mcmaster.com is a complete pain to link to directly but put "Drive Belt" into the search box then follow the links for "Round Belts" > "Solid Core" > "Belting" (Under Form) You can get various sizes of V-belt from there too, as well as adjustable length belting that comes in links. I hope that helps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CustomDoug Report post Posted August 22, 2011 amuckart - thanks for that link. Wizcrafts, you going to order hollow tubing or solid core for this application? And what diameter...1/4" ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted August 22, 2011 amuckart - thanks for that link. Wizcrafts, you going to order hollow tubing or solid core for this application? And what diameter...1/4" ? Neither. I ordered a 23" x 1/4" cogged belt for older Singer home sewing machines. It is a number 2314 belt. This belt will be long enough to allow me to mount the motor up alongside the back of the body, as opposed to down along the rear of the machine's support platform. I will grind down the edge of the motor mount that is interfering with the raised center area on my machine mounting platform, or drill and tap another hole for it, to the right of the first one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandyt Report post Posted August 22, 2011 I used those solid core belts Amuckart mentioned. You can just weld (melting) them together right? Some types are real strechty though you don't want the stretchy ones. They come in smooth surface and some are rough ( you know what I mean with that?). The rough ones grip better. They are great for trying different setups without buying new v-belts all the time. Sandy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CustomDoug Report post Posted August 22, 2011 I used those solid core belts Amuckart mentioned. You can just weld (melting) them together right? The difference from Amuckart's link is that you can choose from either "Belts" or "Belting". The belts section offers pre-closed round belts and the belting section is open ended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CustomDoug Report post Posted September 4, 2011 Neither. I ordered a 23" x 1/4" cogged belt for older Singer home sewing machines. It is a number 2314 belt. This belt will be long enough to allow me to mount the motor up alongside the back of the body, as opposed to down along the rear of the machine's support platform. I will grind down the edge of the motor mount that is interfering with the raised center area on my machine mounting platform, or drill and tap another hole for it, to the right of the first one. Hey Wizcrafts, did you ever get the cogged belt in and have a chance to install the motor up higher in the back of the 29K72? I'd sure like to see a picture of it when you get a chance, please & thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandyt Report post Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) Maybe this is an option? Just a second hand motor with a little reduction gearbox. Second hand frequency converter (VFD). With pulley and v-belt I spend 110 euro's. LOTS of torque and full speedcontrol. This is not the most beatufull setup but I am too impatient to do it all neat and nice. But it works like a train. Only have had this machine for a few days and at first I didn't want to put a motor on it. But the stand isn't it's original so I didn't mind drilling some holes in it. Sandy. Edited September 4, 2011 by sandyt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) Hey Wizcrafts, did you ever get the cogged belt in and have a chance to install the motor up higher in the back of the 29K72? I'd sure like to see a picture of it when you get a chance, please & thanks! Thanks for reminding me about this. Here's your pictures of the 29K172, equipped with an AlphaSew 1.5 amp motor and transistor controller, running the big pulley with a 23" x 1/4" inch cogged belt. It penetrates 1/4 inch of black strap leather with a little effort, and 1/8" like butter. Unlike the leather drive belt, this belt does not slip at all. Amazingly, now that I am able to use both hands on the leather, this setup sews 5 stitches per inch into 1/4" of belt leather, at maximum foot lift and bottom-most stitch regulator settings (where you can still use the lift lever). The presser foot activator has almost no appreciable free play. The triple folded piece of 8 oz belt leather secures the motor against the back of the head, preventing it from being pulled up under strain. My preferred mounting place was completely along the back of the base. But, I can't find a cogged belt 27.5 inches long to mount it there. Edited September 4, 2011 by Wizcrafts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CustomDoug Report post Posted September 4, 2011 Sandy - Thanks for the picture. That wheel looks huge, where'd you source it from? Your setup looks a bit more complicated than the 1.5 amp can motor though, and at 110euros, is a little more expensive than the can motor - if I'm not mistaken. Wizcrafts - Thanks too for the pictures, it's always a big help. I like that setup and think I'll be doing this. The leather shim's not a big deal but it would be nicer with the 27.5" belt. Maybe a crazy idea but do you think an auto parts store would have a longer 1/4" belt? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CustomDoug Report post Posted September 4, 2011 Hey Wizcrafts, I was just thinking..... with your setup (handwheel on the front) the smallish motor doesn't have the added weight of the handwheel/pulley combo to try and turn. Do you think the combo would make a difference for the motor's ability in this application? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
