Need Help With This Turks Head

[Rottmaster]

This is one of the most beautiful Turks head I have ever seen.

Could anyone please direct me or help me in any information

where I could learn how to tie this beautiful Turks head?

And I would also like to know the correct name for this knot.

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Russell

[KnotHead]

This one I saw also on FB. I was told to grab a string and find out how to do it. Them and their damn secrets. Oh well...

B...

[Rottmaster]

This one I saw also on FB. I was told to grab a string and find out how to do it. Them and their damn secrets. Oh well...

B...

Don't worry as soon as I find out how to tie this knot I'll share it with the world.

And I think I know just the man, that is if he will share his secrets even if it cost me $.

[TwinOaks]

Because of the raised portions of that, I think that's just a simple diamond knot with an over weave on the opposite pointing strands. In the second photo, you can see the strands UNDER the raised ones.

[KnotHead]

I'm glad you saw that too. I was thinking I was nuts, or my eyes were playin games with me.

B...

[Rottmaster]

I'm glad you saw that too. I was thinking I was nuts, or my eyes were playin games with me.

B...

you guys are talking greek to me,

But this knot was tied by Charles J. Liesen, maybe he will let us know how he tied it??

[KnotHead]

He would most likely tell ya to get a piece of string and figure it out. He told me the same thing. But who knows. He may just like ya enough to tell ya.

B...

[Leatherpownder]

Charley would tell ya but I'll take a stab at it. It's a pineapple knot that's laced over a section from top to bottom.

[Rottmaster]

Charley would tell ya but I'll take a stab at it. It's a pineapple knot that's laced over a section from top to bottom.

Leatherpownder thanks so much for trying to explain it to me.

I haven't actually asked Charlie yet because I just asked him to be my friend on Facebook.

These gentlemen from Argentina do such beautiful work and I don't think they actually know

how much we admire their work.

I know it takes years and years of hard work to acquire the skills, I just wish I had the funds and I also wish that I spoke Spanish

so that I can go down there and actually learn from the masters themselves but one could wish.

I know there are some excellent books out there from some of the old Masters but they're all in Spanish, and would you know I just happen to not speak Spanish.

I have a friend that has shared some of his books from Argentina and I've tried with Babylon translator but it doesn't do it justice and it's still hard to understand.

If we would have it so lucky that someone would translate these books from these master rawhide braider's these gentlemen would make a fortune in the United States.

I'm sure there are a few of them that are willing to help, but there are a few out there that think that we are going to somehow take away from them their patrons that purchase their merchandise.

At least that's the way they come across, but that is so far from the truth all we want to do is learn how to do their beautiful art we just want them to share techniques with us so that we can

make something beautiful also.

It is just that their work is so beautiful and I wish that they would be more willing to share their knowledge and not keep it so close to the breast.

There is one gentleman from Argentina or somewhere close around their and he wrote two books and they are in English and Spanish and he just happens to be a Facebook friend of mine

and maybe I can get him to write another book on these beautiful knots and buttons, well you know one can wish but it doesn't hurt to ask.

One thing I found it very strange that some of these gentlemen are very tightlipped, but for some reason they don't want to share any of their knowledge, but what they are forgetting is that they had to learn from someone else and just think if they wouldn't have shared their knowledge.

Okay I have rattled on for long enough.

You wouldn't happen to know where I can find some illustrations on how to tie this knot?

Thanks for the help I think I understand and I might try to give it a go.

Russell

Edited September 24, 2011 by Rottmaster

[KnotHead]

Charley would tell ya but I'll take a stab at it. It's a pineapple knot that's laced over a section from top to bottom.

Ya know, you're right about it being a pineapple for the base. I think I see how to do this one. It uses a second string over the top of the pineapple?

B...

[TwinOaks]

To further explain my earlier post... first, I called it a diamond knot....should've called it a pineapple. Oops.

It's a turk's head with an interweave. Then, like Leatherpownder said, it has every other section laced over. There's a tutorial for a pineapple knot

. That will give you the knot underneath, then you go back and lace in the overweave on every other section.

[skyout]

The second photo looks like it has 8 bights. Citizen Kate uploaded my tutorial to make a 16 part x 16 bright 2 pass, Type 1 Pineapple Knot from a base 9px8b Turks Head with a 7px8b Turk's Head interweave here:

PK tut

Hope it helps.

Rick

[Ecapone]

Gentleman,

You are right. Make a pineapple knot and after that, you will figure how to do the rest. It is easier that it seems. You have to do a "ladder stitch" over the tongs in a vertical fashion. I made one for the Cattle Counter that I posted a few days ago.

If you have doubts with the argentinean books and need help with the translations, let me know.

Cheers,

Enrique

[TwinOaks]

Perhaps I did take it wrong. In the interest of keeping this thread on the topic of braiding, I've removed my comment and the reply.

[KnotHead]

Repost -

Hi Russ.

Enrique has graciously offered his translation services to you in case of any doubt within those books, or misunderstanding due to the language separation. lilpep(Jorge) also speaks and reads spanish fluently. He has translated a few documents for me as well as helping me out with some vocabulary. There are some words in other languages that just simply have no translation to the english language. So, in regards to that you'll have to find something, or an object that is relative to both countries to make a translation work. lilpep can either be contacted here on LW, or on KHWW as well. Be patient for his response because he does work full time as many of us do also.

I hope that this will aide you.

B...

[Rottmaster]

Perhaps I did take it wrong. In the interest of keeping this thread on the topic of braiding, I've removed my comment and the reply.

Perhaps you did take it the wrong way, you slam me pretty hard and these people must think that I'm some kind of arrogant fool or even worse.

I would have much rather you leave up what you had posted and I would have really appreciated it if you would've posted my reply but no you did

what a newspaper reporter would do.

I did not insult anyone and I did not slander anyone and I did not use any foul language in my reply or my original post.

I know why you removed it and you know why you removed it and I'll just leave it at that.

[Rottmaster]

Repost -

Hi Russ.

Enrique has graciously offered his translation services to you in case of any doubt within those books, or misunderstanding due to the language separation. lilpep(Jorge) also speaks and reads spanish fluently. He has translated a few documents for me as well as helping me out with some vocabulary. There are some words in other languages that just simply have no translation to the english language. So, in regards to that you'll have to find something, or an object that is relative to both countries to make a translation work. lilpep can either be contacted here on LW, or on KHWW as well. Be patient for his response because he does work full time as many of us do also.

I hope that this will aide you.

B...

I would like to thank everyone on this forum for any help they have ever given me, I would just like to state that I really appreciate all the help that you folks have ever offered to me I cannot overstate this enough.

I understand about language barriers and cultures I live in south Louisiana in the Bayou country my accent is real thick and some folks have a hard time understanding me.

I've worked with people all over the United States and Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Dominican Republic, so needless to say I know about different languages and cultures I don't speak a lot of different languages but I understand

that there are some words that cannot be translated into English.

The reason I know this is because I speak some French and I do not know how to translate some of the words into English.

And once again thanks all you ladies and gentlemen for all your help.

Russell

[Leatherpownder]

All the braiders I have conversed with have been very willing to share their knowledge. Charly live just west of me here in Idaho and puts on a braiding class in Elko during the Poetry Gathering along with Doug Groves and I'm shure they'd help a guy if ya asked.

[TwinOaks]

Well, since you insist....

I removed my reply because I thought I HAD misunderstood what you were saying, and in retrospect, decided that whether or not I misunderstood specific text of your post, the INTENT of your post was another thing entirely. At the very least, it deserved the benefit of the doubt, and my critical post did not take that into account. Since my post did not contribute anything constructive to this thread, and resulted in a bit of a bickering match between the two of us, I decided to remove it and your rebuttal, - to prevent hijacking this thread, and to keep it on the topic of braiding.

If you'd really like to know why I posted it in the first place, well, here's why:

TO ME, .....Lines 10-19 of post #9 are complaining that the master braiders aren't sharing their little secrets of making master class products. That's not picking out one sentence, it's nearly half of the post. Whining that even though 'they think we'd steal their patrons, but we really just want to learn', sounds like a bunch of entitlement minded, "you owe it to me", crap. Just because you don't want to do that, doesn't mean that no one else wouldn't. With that 'we just want to learn' comment, you're completely disregarding the braiders' concerns...which are valid. Then there's the issue of me mentioning that several have shared it ....in books. They speak Spanish; who'd have thought they might write a book in one? How dare they not write a book in English!!! Don't complain that someone wrote a book in their language and you can't understand it. That's not the authors' fault nor problem, it's an obstacle that the reader must overcome. The authors of books don't owe it to you to make it understandable, and the master braiders don't owe it to you to explain how they do things. If they chose to remain "tight lipped", and not share their techniques then so be it. Saying " but what they are forgetting is that they had to learn from someone else and just think if they wouldn't have shared their knowledge" is just disrespectful. It implies that they have to share the knowledge because somebody had to teach them, it's just not right that they won't tell you how to braid like they do.

At least, that's the way I read the post the first time. After you posted the reply that pretty much said you didn't mean it that way, I re-read it and thought: 'yeah, I can see it the other way too.'

Now, I removed the longer previous post that was here, because I couldn't see how those comments could possibly benefit this topic. Your rebuttal to the comment didn't make a whole lot of sense as a stand alone post, so both of the posts were removed. Also, I never said that you slandered or insulted anyone, nor that you used foul language. As for you knowing why I removed it.......well, now you do.

I was perfectly content with realizing I posted a criticism in error, not recognizing the intent, and removing the post for the continuity of the thread. But since you wanted it explained.....

[entiendo]

Twin Oaks, I thought it was just me, I see you like slap others on the wrist for their alleged inappropriate posts, perhaps you should reconsider your micromanaging techniques, they only cause more problems.

Edited September 26, 2011 by entiendo

[TwinOaks]

I did reconsider. That's why I removed my post (as written above)......it was slapping myself on the wrist.