Help With Tippman Boss When Back-Stitching

[RDark]

I realize this may have already been answered somewhere on this great forum, however..........

I have had a Tippman Boss for about four years and use it only for sewing knife sheaths. Every time I try back-stitching at the beginning of the stitch, and especially the end of the stitch, the back side of my stitching looks like a drunk squirrel built a nest there. I have tried to slowly put the needle to one side of the existing stitch so as not to push that thread back out. I just can't make it happen.

Does anyone have a tip that may help?

Thanks,

Robert

[particle]

Are you backstitching like is shown on the Tippmann video on their website? (Start sewing at the end of the line, stitch forward one stitch, pull it backwards and stitch the same hole again, stitch forward one more stitch, then reverse again and then proceed forward)

If so, I agree that method looks like a turd, but it's probably a more durable lock stitch than what I am about to describe.

Here is what I do - run a test stitch on the same thickness of leather, then get a pair of wing dividers and spread the dividers to the center of 4 or 5 stitches. Transfer that distance to your piece. Start sewing forward at that measurement, but you'll be sewing back towards the beginning of the line. Now, rotate the point around 180 degrees and proceed to stitch like normal. Once done, turn the piece around and sew back 4 or 5 stitches. If you're worried about it coming undone, put a dab of super glue on the ends of the thread and mash it down with a spoon. You can also dampen the stitch line with a sponge and hammer the holes closed with a smooth-faced hammer.

[TwinOaks]

After reading the suggestion from Dwight (I think), I started just leaving about 6 inches of thread after the last hole and hand (saddle) stitching the back stitch to lock it down. That allows me to tension the threads 'just right', and it looks a whole lot better. It also lets me put both cut ends on the same side of the piece. It takes just a few more minutes than back stitching with the machine, but I prefer the results. I have not had any problems with it coming loose, either.

[RDark]

Thanks guys. My main concern with back-stitching is that the back side of the stitches (when back-stitching) looks like a bird nest. The needle and thread always seem to push the first stitches out a bit, then everything gets all jumbled up. The top-side of the stitches look great, but when you turn the sheath over............ Bad news.

I will do some tests based on "particle's" suggestion and see if that helps, however, I just may have to do like "TwinOaks" suggested and do the back-stitching by hand. I sure hate to do that, but if I can't get the Tippman to cooperate, I guess I will have to.

Robert

[particle]

For what it's worth, here's a shot of one of my holsters from the back using the method I described. But I agree with Dwight and TwinOaks - that might be a better idea if you have the time to do it.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Robert, I use a Boss a lot and what I have found works to stop that look is to use the methods that the guys are telling you, but: one more thing that I do that really finishes it well. After each back stitch I actually reach up to the "take up arm" and push up on it to make sure the stitch is tight before the next back stitch. Try it on a practice piece and you will see if it gives you the look you are looking for.

Bob

[RDark]

Robert, I use a Boss a lot and what I have found works to stop that look is to use the methods that the guys are telling you, but: one more thing that I do that really finishes it well. After each back stitch I actually reach up to the "take up arm" and push up on it to make sure the stitch is tight before the next back stitch. Try it on a practice piece and you will see if it gives you the look you are looking for.

Bob

Thanks for that suggestion Bob. I will sure give it a try.

Robert

[Iron Pounder]

After reading the suggestion from Dwight (I think), I started just leaving about 6 inches of thread after the last hole and hand (saddle) stitching the back stitch to lock it down. That allows me to tension the threads 'just right', and it looks a whole lot better. It also lets me put both cut ends on the same side of the piece. It takes just a few more minutes than back stitching with the machine, but I prefer the results. I have not had any problems with it coming loose, either.

This sounds great. Do you just saddle stitch say two stitches back and then bring both threads to the back and knot it and tuck? Or saddle stitch a few and then trim off? I like the look and feel of stitches not in a groove but a groove would really help with the look of start and stop.

[TwinOaks]

This sounds great. Do you just saddle stitch say two stitches back and then bring both threads to the back and knot it and tuck? Or saddle stitch a few and then trim off? I like the look and feel of stitches not in a groove but a groove would really help with the look of start and stop.

I go two and a half, or three and a half, depending on how much stress I think it will get. The "and a half" means I saddle stitch and then pull the top thread back onto the previous hole, instead of the next hole. That puts the 4 threads from the lock stitch, two from the saddle stitch, plus the final 'tail', leaving 7 threads in a hole sized for four. At that point, it's in there really tight....don't be surprised if you need pliers to pull the needle through. Then once all the threads are pulled through to the back side, I trim them and give the area a light spraying of water right on the holes to help swell the leather, and roll the seam with a hand roller (you could also tap them down if you have a flat faced hammer).

[JRodz]

Robert,There is another post titled "Tippman Boss" with some discussion on the same topic. I posted some links to other posts discussing what to do at the start and end of a stitch line. That being said, it includes some of the same info from the same people. It helped me so hopefully it will help you too.

[Iron Pounder]

I go two and a half, or three and a half, depending on how much stress I think it will get. The "and a half" means I saddle stitch and then pull the top thread back onto the previous hole, instead of the next hole. That puts the 4 threads from the lock stitch, two from the saddle stitch, plus the final 'tail', leaving 7 threads in a hole sized for four. At that point, it's in there really tight....don't be surprised if you need pliers to pull the needle through. Then once all the threads are pulled through to the back side, I trim them and give the area a light spraying of water right on the holes to help swell the leather, and roll the seam with a hand roller (you could also tap them down if you have a flat faced hammer).

I thought I had it in my head until you said 7 threads in one hole. I'm sure it is just the pain in my leg not letting me think about much else. It looks like back in the hospital on Monday. I sure hope they can save it as I kind of like it. My thought is 2 threads from the regular stitch, 2 threads from the saddle stitch and one thread pulled from the top to the back. So I get 5 in one hole but then again I'm in Missouri and we have our own math system here. Either way you guys have been a big help for sure.

Ryan

[TwinOaks]

A lock-stitch (which is what the Boss does) has 4 threads in each hole. Both the top and bottom threads go into the hole....and come out on the same side. They just happen to be wrapped around each other in the middle. Saddle stitching only has two threads in each hole because each thread enters on one side but exits on the opposite side.

[Iron Pounder]

A lock-stitch (which is what the Boss does) has 4 threads in each hole. Both the top and bottom threads go into the hole....and come out on the same side. They just happen to be wrapped around each other in the middle. Saddle stitching only has two threads in each hole because each thread enters on one side but exits on the opposite side.

Ha yep I'm with ya. Laid there last night as I couldn't sleep and went through it in my head. I will have to see if I have a pair of needles small enough to do that and not bend. I have some size 0 but I think that is the smallest I have.

[TwinOaks]

Walmart sells a pack of needles in the craft dept. for around 2 bucks. The second smallest size (two of each) works fine for 277, and the smallest works as well, but has a smaller eye, so threading is a bit more challenging.