Hazards Of Boiling Beeswax For Medieval Leather Bottles

[UKRay]

I'm feeling pretty pleased with myself today having purchased a monster deep fat fryer and used it to melt 10 kilos (somewhere near 2 gallons) of pure beeswax ready to dip my next batch of leather bottles. Tempering enthusiasm with caution is always a good idea, however, and I'm slightly concerned about the hazards associated with molten beeswax and wondered if anyone had any experience of using it and what the dangers might be.

Anyone know the flash point of beeswax please? If it catches fire what is the best way to extinguish the blaze? I have two new fire extinguishers (dry powder and CO2) to hand. I also have a fire blanket. Is this adequate. Obviously there are no naked flames as the fryer unit is electric and has a thermostat and safety cut out if it overheats. Fire Officers, are you able to help here?

What is the best working temperature for molten beeswax and leather bottles? I kinda suspect it is right up there near the flash point... oops!

Thoughts, suggestions and questions welcome as always.

Thanks guys,

Ray

[Art]

Hi Ray,

Beeswax melts at about 145F, you can take it further up but around 185F it will start to turn brown. I don't know what the boiling point is, but it's flashpoint is about 400F. To put it out, simply deprive it of oxygen and cut back on the heat, put a lid on it; it will go way brown by that time. I always use my mom's old electric turkey roaster set on medium then cut back to low. A candy thermometer is handy.

I guess I'm saying don't take it over 170F.

Art

I'm feeling pretty pleased with myself today having purchased a monster deep fat fryer and used it to melt 10 kilos (somewhere near 2 gallons) of pure beeswax ready to dip my next batch of leather bottles. Tempering enthusiasm with caution is always a good idea, however, and I'm slightly concerned about the hazards associated with molten beeswax and wondered if anyone had any experience of using it and what the dangers might be.

Anyone know the flash point of beeswax please? If it catches fire what is the best way to extinguish the blaze? I have two new fire extinguishers (dry powder and CO2) to hand. I also have a fire blanket. Is this adequate. Obviously there are no naked flames as the fryer unit is electric and has a thermostat and safety cut out if it overheats. Fire Officers, are you able to help here?

What is the best working temperature for molten beeswax and leather bottles? I kinda suspect it is right up there near the flash point... oops!

Thoughts, suggestions and questions welcome as always.

Thanks guys,

Ray

[WinterBear]

Hi Ray.

I've worked with wax for batik and some furniture, and in a nutshell, wax can be a major hazard, but really only has to be melted, no heated past the melt-point.. In a nutshell:

-Keeping the wax temperature close to the melt point rather than hotter means that if wax touches exposed skin, the wax will cause a painful burn, but not a bad burn. Never try to brush wax off of skin or peel it off--your skin can come with it-- instead, keep a bowl of water nearby (but away from the work area) to immediately cool and crack wax if you get splashed.

-Be wary of anything wet near melted wax. A drop of water will flash to steam at temperatures that wax can reach, and can cause the wax to boil over or spatter (like water into hot oil!), and this is a risk with double boilers. Like with grease fires, NEVER NEVER try to put out a wax fire with water.

-HOWEVER, a double boiler is recommended to melt wax because wax can very easily reach a flash-point if direct contact is made with the heat source, cause the wax to bust into flame and/or explode, spattering in all directions. I believe the melting point of beeswax at or near sea level is between 113 F to 151 F (45 to 66 C), below the boiling point of water (212 F or 100 C). Double boilers will not get hotter than the boiling point of water if the pans are not allowed to boil dry. Since the flash point of wax is above the boiling point of water, this gives you a safety margin. I know several people that use crock pots and the like to heat wax, but they keep a thermometer in the wax, stir like mad when its melting, and watch them like a hawk. Once it's melted, they usually unplug the crock pot if they only need it for less than an hour's worth of work. They also tend to never let the wax remain hot for more than an hour or two at a time when using it for longer periods and never leave it unattended, even for a moment.

-Wax is generally hotter when melted than when in the process of melting. Never turn up the temperature to make it melt faster because the wax will heat unevenly, and may be near the flash point nearest the heat source but be cooler at the top. Beeswax begins to discolor at around 185 F (85C), but may not discolor noticeably until it reaches a higher temperature. If the wax is smoking or has changed color, it can be within a degree or two of the flash point.

-The flash point for beeswax can range from 300 to 572 degrees F (149 to 300 C), but is usually at 400 F (204 C); differences are due to purity, types of bees, etc., and beeswax is a mix of over 200 different compounds that vary in their percent composition in any given sample. Boiling points vary widely. The flash point can occur at a lower temperature than the boiling point or vice versa.

-I believe you'd want an extinguisher rated for grease and chemical fires.

[Northmount]

Wax, grease, oil --- the only extinguisher is to remove the air by covering it. Either with a lid that fits the pot or a fire blanket. (other non-flammable blankets can do the job, make sure what you are using doesn't combust)

Spraying a burning pot with any extinguisher will stir up the surface and spread burning wax, grease or oil all over, creating a much larger fire than just leaving it burn would have. If you can't safely cover the pot, get everyone out of the building and call 911 in that order.

Wear protective clothing. There are lots of resources that tell you what to wear. But to keep it simple, don't wear fabrics like polyester that melt. They melt right into your flesh. Don't wear fabrics that burn easily. Generally cotton or wool are a reasonable choice. No bare arms. If you do have a fire, how would you put the lid on it safely if your arms are bare? Gloves at hand would be a good idea too. If you aren't wearing them, stop to put them on first. Above all, keep your head and don't panic. Panic maims and kills. Move slow and deliberate, keep control.

A face shield is a good idea too, though many people would think that is overkill. A splash of hot wax on your face, espeically near your nose and eyes is going to be a lot more painful than on your hand and will cause an immediate reaction (backing up and tripping over the dog) that could do a lot more damage.

Safe work habits will help you enjoy your work and help to keep you out of the hospital.

[bruce johnson]

And here's another safety tip. If you decide to add a bunch of dark brown dye to make brown wax for edges, you will need to gently boil the solvent off to allow the dye particles to disperse throughout the wax sort of evenly. It is a good idea at this point not to tell your wife exactly what you are doing on her new stove over the recently laid laminate flooring. It can be done, but the safety tip here is - if you tell her then wear proper hearing protection. Wives tend to yell really loudly at that point. The real lesson out of that whole deal was that the brown dyed wax didn't really make my edges that much darker, but I am not admitting that to her.

[Art]

Hi Bruce,

Eliminate the yelling, screaming, and the mess. Buy some Yankee Wax, it is made by Renia and comes in a bunch of colors and neutral. Most shoe suppliers carry it, should be $3 a bar or so. Goes on hot with a burnishing iron well too. I use it after applying burnishing ink and letting it dry.

Art

And here's another safety tip. If you decide to add a bunch of dark brown dye to make brown wax for edges, you will need to gently boil the solvent off to allow the dye particles to disperse throughout the wax sort of evenly. It is a good idea at this point not to tell your wife exactly what you are doing on her new stove over the recently laid laminate flooring. It can be done, but the safety tip here is - if you tell her then wear proper hearing protection. Wives tend to yell really loudly at that point. The real lesson out of that whole deal was that the brown dyed wax didn't really make my edges that much darker, but I am not admitting that to her.

[bruce johnson]

Art.

It was one of those "seemed like good idea at the time" deals. I was mixing my beeswax/parafin mix in the pyrex cup on the stovetop. I thought "Hey they make a wax that has dye in it, how hard can that be?" so added about a third again of dark brown dye and let it go a bit swirling to mix. When I poured it into the muffing papers it stayed separated. That would have been the point where a prudent man would have stopped and left hot solvent and melted wax to professionals. I was not wanting to waste my $3 worth of beeswax and probably 50 cents worth of parafin. I went on and cooked off solvent while she was gathering important papers and family heirlooms for evacuation. Like I told my wife when I was done "No flame - No foul!".

[Art]

Bruce,

Sure she wasn't checking up on your life insurance policy?

Art

Art.

It was one of those "seemed like good idea at the time" deals. I was mixing my beeswax/parafin mix in the pyrex cup on the stovetop. I thought "Hey they make a wax that has dye in it, how hard can that be?" so added about a third again of dark brown dye and let it go a bit swirling to mix. When I poured it into the muffing papers it stayed separated. That would have been the point where a prudent man would have stopped and left hot solvent and melted wax to professionals. I was not wanting to waste my $3 worth of beeswax and probably 50 cents worth of parafin. I went on and cooked off solvent while she was gathering important papers and family heirlooms for evacuation. Like I told my wife when I was done "No flame - No foul!".

[UKRay]

Hey, Bruce, what is a 'muffing paper' - my mind is boggling... lol

Is this a transatlantic translation thing?

Ray

[WinterBear]

Muffin paper maybe? Those little crinkled/corrugated paper cups you put into the tins to keep from burning the muffins to the pan.

[Art]

Ray,

Sometimes I say "muffing" to keep from having to put $1 in the swear jar. The Salvation Army loves it every time I don't say "muffing". I've been doing leatherworking and shoemaking/reparing for years, the wife says she would rather have me "muffing around" in the shop than out chasing women. She does realize that I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it.

Dog has the same problem with trash trucks.

Art

Hey, Bruce, what is a 'muffing paper' - my mind is boggling... lol

Is this a transatlantic translation thing?

Ray

[WinterBear]

Love it Art, I now have a new name for my computer, the muffing thing.

I already have coworkers who yell "Cheese and Rice" or "Son of a biscuit" when the computer they are working on crashes, and yes, we have an office swear jar.

[Dwight]

FWIW, . . . I went to the Goodwill store some time back, . . . spent $10, . . . got a gently used crock pot.

Put about a pint of water in the old thing, . . . plug it in, . . . put your wax in a quart jar, . . . put the quart jar in the water in the crock pot, . . . go get a cup of coffee and a small danish.

By the time your danish is history and the coffee is down to one swaller, . . . the wax should be molten, . . . and "so far" at least, . . . it never has gotten hot enough to turn color on me.

I won't mess with wax or parrafin any other way, . . . but then again, . . . I won't go sky diving either annnnnnnnnnndddd, . . . my wife doesn't care what I do with that old crock pot just so long as that ugly lookin' thang stays in my shop. Also keeps me from having to clean the white top of her glass top stove

May God bless,

Dwight

[MikeCahill]

'

Muffin paper maybe? Those little crinkled/corrugated paper cups you put into the tins to keep from burning the muffins to the pan.

we call those things "bun cases" and use them to make "buns" in i.e. small individual cakes

[Art]

Ok, so what are the bisquits they have with Tea? Also do you have what we colonials call Biskits or properly, biscuits. This is confusing, try dinner and supper.

Art

'

we call those things "bun cases" and use them to make "buns" in i.e. small individual cakes

[MikeCahill]

Ok, so what are the bisquits they have with Tea? Also do you have what we colonials call Biskits or properly, biscuits. This is confusing, try dinner and supper.

Art

it depends on your class and what part of the uk you come from in the north, dinner is the mid day meal, tea is the early evening meal, and supper is last thing at night before going to bed. In the South lunch is the mid day meal, tea is late afternoon snack, and dinner/supper is a mid evening meal. Biscuits are a hard pastry (with more sugar in it, and no egg,) that is cut to shape and baked in an oven, the spelling is cos its a French word, we were conquered by the French about a thousand years ago, they brought a lot of words with them

cheers

Mike

[Art]

Damned French, how the hell did THEY conquer the English. It took over a Billion of our $ and a half a year for them to help the Libyans kill Gadaffi when a couple of hundred grand and a seal team could have done it in a week. Woops, it would have cost $14 Million if our boys had left a Pave Low chopper there in pieces. Why couldn't some of your SES boys have done it, the Brits always seem to do military things cheaper than us.

Sorry, where I work they seem to leave the first six zeros off of reports and put "in millions of dollars" in very small type at the top of the column.

Art

it depends on your class and what part of the uk you come from in the north, dinner is the mid day meal, tea is the early evening meal, and supper is last thing at night before going to bed. In the South lunch is the mid day meal, tea is late afternoon snack, and dinner/supper is a mid evening meal. Biscuits are a hard pastry (with more sugar in it, and no egg,) that is cut to shape and baked in an oven, the spelling is cos its a French word, we were conquered by the French about a thousand years ago, they brought a lot of words with them

cheers

Mike

[UKRay]

Those would be Rich Tea Biscuits, Art. see: RICH TEA BISCUITS

Biskits? You lost me there...

BTW - I was surprised to discover how long wax holds its heat. That stuff I melted yesterday was still pretty warm this morning. Impressive! Anyone else using molten beeswax to waterproof leather bottles?

Ray

[Art]

I meant Biscuits, the baking powder type we make over here and pour gravy over or any number of other uses. What do you call them in your neck of the woods?

Art

Those would be Rich Tea Biscuits, Art. see: RICH TEA BISCUITS

Biskits? You lost me there...

BTW - I was surprised to discover how long wax holds its heat. That stuff I melted yesterday was still pretty warm this morning. Impressive! Anyone else using molten beeswax to waterproof leather bottles?

Ray

[UKRay]

I don't think we have them over here, Art. I'm already feeling the need to try 'em!

Ray

[WinterBear]

Ray, I'll message you a couple of biscuit recipes if you want to give them a whirl.

[TigerPal]

What UKRay is calling biscuits, we Yanks & Rebs tend to call "cookies". On the other hand, what we call biscuits just might be what they call "scones"... correct me if I'm wrong. In either case, American-style biscuits are delicious with gravy poured over them, or as a breakfast sandwich with sausage, ham, eggs or any number of other delicacies inserted.

[UKRay]

That would be most kind, Winterbear.

What sort of consistency are these biscuits of yours? Are they like a bread? Are they hard like a cookie?

We do have muffins over here that are rather like a soft bread roll - is that the sort of thing you mean? McDonalds sell 'em with bacon and egg in 'em. check out: MUFFIN

Ray

[DJ1935]

We use beeswax in our leather dressing and melt it, outside on the gravel, in a double boiler over a gas burner. The only hazzard we have come across is the huge numbers of honey bees which come around as soon as the wax gets warm. I believe this is something they do because they think the hive is on fire. Rather than arm waving and generally panicking as is usual when a horde of bees descends on one, we now offer some sugar on a plastic lid and this keeps the bees happy until we get our dressing done.

DJ

[WinterBear]

That would be most kind, Winterbear.

What sort of consistency are these biscuits of yours? Are they like a bread? Are they hard like a cookie?

We do have muffins over here that are rather like a soft bread roll - is that the sort of thing you mean? McDonalds sell 'em with bacon and egg in 'em. check out: MUFFIN

Ray

On the way then. I'll send the three basic types I typically eat at home or at friend's homes: yeast, buttermilk, and baking powder.

Most biscuits are sort of bready, but usually firmer and denser overall. The McDonald's things are what are sold here as "English Muffins" and aren't considered a biscuit. Entirely different taste and texture.