How Do I Keep The Dye From Rubbing Off My Edges!

[Kcinnick]

No matter what I do I cannot get the dye to stop coming off my edges. Here is a description of my last attempt.

Well, I got some empty "Copic Sketch Markers", they are perfect for doing edges. They are made for comic book artist to ink drawings with alcohol based inks and come with a chiseled tip and point tip that is soft almost like a paint brush.

My lines are now perfectly straight, angling the chiseled tip at the correct angle to the leather and a steady hand makes for a nice clean edge. Now I am still back to my original problem, I have still having dye rub off!

I am able to get a clean edge before or after burnishing with the copic markers so I have tried both ways. So my last two belts I dyed the edges black using the marker then ran an old white t shirt over the edges and got any excess dry dye off.

I then used Fiebings glycerine soap to slick the edges then hand burnished with duck cloth and fiebings white saddle soap.

I then coated the edges with paraffin wax and used my grinder style buffer to shine the edges. The buffer gets the belt hot enough to give the wax a good shine. I would stop there if I could but black will still come off on a soft cloth.

So I had a can of Clearlac, neatlac, whatever the stuff is called and I filled one of my copic markers with it, perfect even coats, great. Well I did a couple of coats and let it dry, got a white T shirt ran it across and I got black marks!

I just tried two more belts and I am going to let them dry overnight this time, well at least until later in the morning. One got 3 light layers with a copic marker, the other got a few layers with an artists brush. Maybe giving an overnight dry time will give me the protection I am looking for. I am probably the only loon who got out of bed at 1 am to go test some new methods to get my edges right. They look really nice, I just can't have black dye coming off if I ever hope to start selling. These are for Christmas gifts, and I have a few people who want to buy but I have to get the edges beyond pretty , they need to be pretty and durable.

I don't really want to coat the entire belts in Clearlac, I really like the look I am getting with a light coat of neatsfoot oil then a coating of Renaissance wax, I put my finishes on before I sew or edge the belt, the stitching gets beat up and gunked up if I finish after stitching and edging.

Thanks for any insight you may have.

Those belts I let dry overnight did not work, still got black marks on my white cloth!!!

I really need to stop the black from coming off.

[Luke Hatley]

This is what i do for my edges....

*DYE THE EDGES BLACK FIRST*..

THEN FINISH THE EDGES

[JoelR]

First question is what kind of dye are you using? I have found that Feibings black spirit dyes are a PITA to keep from rubbing off. I have been using pro oil for a while and they are much better. Try leaving them dry a good 48 hours before touching them with anything else. If not fully dry, the soaps/waxes you are using could pick up the color and that may be what is rubbing off. Other option is to try using just water for your burnishing and once nice and shiny, seal with your top coat. I get very nice edges with a tandy rub stick to initially press the fibers together and get the edge nice and hard, then duck cloth to do the final burnish and polish.

I like the idea of the Copic markers. Where did you find empty ones?

[Kcinnick]

The copic markers are amazing. I got 4 from a dealer on amazon, otaku fuel.

I am using pro oil black, so should wait 48 hours to dry, any tips on saving the couple of belts I am having problems with?

[terrymac]

Just an idea, but recently I bought some Quik Slik from Sheridan Leather to use rather than glycerine and saddle soap. What I have found is I can great edge coverage with one coat rather than two or three. I'm using good old fashion spirit dye in dark brown, and without a lot of rubbing with a cloth, no residue. I also use Neatlac to finish.

Terry

[busted]

No matter what I do I cannot get the dye to stop coming off my edges. Here is a description of my last attempt.

Well, I got some empty "Copic Sketch Markers", they are perfect for doing edges. They are made for comic book artist to ink drawings with alcohol based inks and come with a chiseled tip and point tip that is soft almost like a paint brush.

My lines are now perfectly straight, angling the chiseled tip at the correct angle to the leather and a steady hand makes for a nice clean edge. Now I am still back to my original problem, I have still having dye rub off!

I am able to get a clean edge before or after burnishing with the copic markers so I have tried both ways. So my last two belts I dyed the edges black using the marker then ran an old white t shirt over the edges and got any excess dry dye off.

I then used Fiebings glycerine soap to slick the edges then hand burnished with duck cloth and fiebings white saddle soap.

I then coated the edges with paraffin wax and used my grinder style buffer to shine the edges. The buffer gets the belt hot enough to give the wax a good shine. I would stop there if I could but black will still come off on a soft cloth.

So I had a can of Clearlac, neatlac, whatever the stuff is called and I filled one of my copic markers with it, perfect even coats, great. Well I did a couple of coats and let it dry, got a white T shirt ran it across and I got black marks!

I just tried two more belts and I am going to let them dry overnight this time, well at least until later in the morning. One got 3 light layers with a copic marker, the other got a few layers with an artists brush. Maybe giving an overnight dry time will give me the protection I am looking for. I am probably the only loon who got out of bed at 1 am to go test some new methods to get my edges right. They look really nice, I just can't have black dye coming off if I ever hope to start selling. These are for Christmas gifts, and I have a few people who want to buy but I have to get the edges beyond pretty , they need to be pretty and durable.

I don't really want to coat the entire belts in Clearlac, I really like the look I am getting with a light coat of neatsfoot oil then a coating of Renaissance wax, I put my finishes on before I sew or edge the belt, the stitching gets beat up and gunked up if I finish after stitching and edging.

Thanks for any insight you may have.

Those belts I let dry overnight did not work, still got black marks on my white cloth!!!

I really need to stop the black from coming off.

Why would you use a soap to edge the belt?? Stop wiping the dye off with a white cloth. You need some of Fiebing's Resolene this will seal the edges if you don't want to use Resolene then use gum tragacanth and a slicker stick. Good luck.

Edited December 17, 2011 by busted

[randypants]

Why would you use a soap to edge the belt??

Cause it works and makes your edges look top notch.

OP, i usually dye my edges after sanding them but before starting with the glycerin. looks great every time.

[Kcinnick]

So,

I re-edged the belts, got them down to bare leather. Burnished with wood and water. Dyed the edges. Let them sit for two days. I put several light coats of clear lac let it sit a day. And bam today, tested it out and it just rubs off. I swear I am never dying and edge again!!! They will just stay two different colors, I don't know what else to do.

[TwinOaks]

This is what i do for my edges....

*DYE THE EDGES BLACK FIRST*..

THEN FINISH THE EDGES

this ^

[Phatdaddy]

Cause it works and makes your edges look top notch.

OP, i usually dye my edges after sanding them but before starting with the glycerin. looks great every time.

This is what i do for my edges....

*DYE THE EDGES BLACK FIRST*..

THEN FINISH THE EDGES

I use a combination of these suggestions.

- Use preferred edge beveler if desired.

- Sand edges as needed (dust off any leather dust)

- Dye edge

- Finish edge with preferred method

Kevin

[hidepounder]

I am using pro oil black, so should wait 48 hours to dry, any tips on saving the couple of belts I am having problems with?

Nick, I'm suspicious of your oil based dye. I never use it on edges. I use Fiebings alcohol dye. Additionally I don't use any of Fiebings black because of the rubbing off issue. I use Lincoln alcohol dye when I need black, which can be purchased at any show repair shop. And I always burnish with saddle soap BEFORE dying the edge. It is difficult ot get a clean dye line when using alcohol based dyes on raw edges.

Why would you use a soap to edge the belt?? Stop wiping the dye off with a white cloth. You need some of Fiebing's Resolene this will seal the edges if you don't want to use Resolene then use gum tragacanth and a slicker stick. Good luck.

Using saddle soap to burnish edges is probably the oldest most commonly used method of burnishing used by saddlemakers for years and years. I think it is far superior to using Gum Tragacanth. Gum Tragacanth is difficult to dye through as is beeswax. Additionally, using heavy canvas to burnish with produces better results. The saddle soap acts as a slicking agent. However if one has an adversion to using saddle soap, Quick Slik is a good alternative. Resolene is a good finish on edges, however if you finish your edges with paraffin as I do, it can be difficult to get it to adhere. Here is an example of edges finished in this manner:

Edited December 20, 2011 by hidepounder

[harnessman]

No matter what I do I cannot get the dye to stop coming off my edges. Here is a description of my last attempt.

Well, I got some empty "Copic Sketch Markers", they are perfect for doing edges. They are made for comic book artist to ink drawings with alcohol based inks and come with a chiseled tip and point tip that is soft almost like a paint brush.

My lines are now perfectly straight, angling the chiseled tip at the correct angle to the leather and a steady hand makes for a nice clean edge. Now I am still back to my original problem, I have still having dye rub off!

I am able to get a clean edge before or after burnishing with the copic markers so I have tried both ways. So my last two belts I dyed the edges black using the marker then ran an old white t shirt over the edges and got any excess dry dye off.

I then used Fiebings glycerine soap to slick the edges then hand burnished with duck cloth and fiebings white saddle soap.

I then coated the edges with paraffin wax and used my grinder style buffer to shine the edges. The buffer gets the belt hot enough to give the wax a good shine. I would stop there if I could but black will still come off on a soft cloth.

So I had a can of Clearlac, neatlac, whatever the stuff is called and I filled one of my copic markers with it, perfect even coats, great. Well I did a couple of coats and let it dry, got a white T shirt ran it across and I got black marks!

I just tried two more belts and I am going to let them dry overnight this time, well at least until later in the morning. One got 3 light layers with a copic marker, the other got a few layers with an artists brush. Maybe giving an overnight dry time will give me the protection I am looking for. I am probably the only loon who got out of bed at 1 am to go test some new methods to get my edges right. They look really nice, I just can't have black dye coming off if I ever hope to start selling. These are for Christmas gifts, and I have a few people who want to buy but I have to get the edges beyond pretty , they need to be pretty and durable.

I don't really want to coat the entire belts in Clearlac, I really like the look I am getting with a light coat of neatsfoot oil then a coating of Renaissance wax, I put my finishes on before I sew or edge the belt, the stitching gets beat up and gunked up if I finish after stitching and edging.

Thanks for any insight you may have.

Those belts I let dry overnight did not work, still got black marks on my white cloth!!!

I really need to stop the black from coming off.

OK, just so you do not feel so alone out there I am having the same problem. I recently made a pair of 4" wide Santa belts out of bridle leather, one Black and one Havana brown. and Santa is having a problem with them bleading out the edges. He is not happy and I am 'fraid I am getting nothing but coal for Christmas this year!

Edges were sanded,

dyed with Fiebings Pro oil dye dried overnight

hit with Gum T. slicked second coat of gum slicked again,

let dry for 24 hourse coat of

Atom wax over the top to really shine everything up. I buff out with old white "T" shirts and only a little of the wax residue and color comes off, once polished I can rub like heck and nothing comes off on the white "T"s.

Damn things are leaving black lines four inches apart all over his expensive custom made wool suit. He is sending the belts back to be reworked, but I am not sure what the heck to do to get them to stop bleeding.

Anybody got any Ideas how to seal these up?

[Kcinnick]

OK, just so you do not feel so alone out there I am having the same problem. I recently made a pair of 4" wide Santa belts out of bridle leather, one Black and one Havana brown. and Santa is having a problem with them bleading out the edges. He is not happy and I am 'fraid I am getting nothing but coal for Christmas this year!

Edges were sanded,

dyed with Fiebings Pro oil dye dried overnight

hit with Gum T. slicked second coat of gum slicked again,

let dry for 24 hourse coat of

Atom wax over the top to really shine everything up. I buff out with old white "T" shirts and only a little of the wax residue and color comes off, once polished I can rub like heck and nothing comes off on the white "T"s.

Damn things are leaving black lines four inches apart all over his expensive custom made wool suit. He is sending the belts back to be reworked, but I am not sure what the heck to do to get them to stop bleeding.

Anybody got any Ideas how to seal these up?

I got mine to stop with 4 heavy coats of neatlac, clearlac, whatever LCI calls it these days. It was suggested to me to try lincoln dyes, I just haven't found a source yet. The only color I have a problem with is black, so in the future I am just going to vinegeroon all my black, only problem is I still have some drum dyed black leather on hand that I need to use. As soon as I find a supplier of lincoln black dye that charges less than $11 to ship a $4 bottle of dye, or find a supplier I can buy other stuff from that has it I will try it out. BTW, its a PITA to put on 4 heavy coats of clearlac.

[harnessman]

I got mine to stop with 4 heavy coats of neatlac, clearlac, whatever LCI calls it these days. It was suggested to me to try lincoln dyes, I just haven't found a source yet. The only color I have a problem with is black, so in the future I am just going to vinegeroon all my black, only problem is I still have some drum dyed black leather on hand that I need to use. As soon as I find a supplier of lincoln black dye that charges less than $11 to ship a $4 bottle of dye, or find a supplier I can buy other stuff from that has it I will try it out. BTW, its a PITA to put on 4 heavy coats of clearlac.

Yea, I know about the PITA with multiple coats of neetlac, used to use that stuff, bagcoat as well, never real happy with the finish that it gave. Always looked like someone had applied a coat of plastic to the leather. I have never worked with Vingaroon, might have to give it a try, as well as the lincoln dye's.

Thanks

[Kcinnick]

Yea, I know about the PITA with multiple coats of neetlac, used to use that stuff, bagcoat as well, never real happy with the finish that it gave. Always looked like someone had applied a coat of plastic to the leather. I have never worked with Vingaroon, might have to give it a try, as well as the lincoln dye's.

Thanks

I only applied it to the edge so it looks OK. No way I would ever coat an entire item in that stuff.

[hidepounder]

(laughing!!!) I hear of people having trouble with Neat Lac and I have never been able to understand why! It's easy to apply in light coats and easy to apply in heavy coats (which will not perform well). It's easy to get a light shene for a finish or no shene at all! It doesn't streak or blotch, it can be stripped and re-applied and it can be oiled through and in IMHO it out performs everything I've run into!

Finishes aside, I leave my belt edges unsealed more than I seal them and I don't have problems with the dye rubbing off....for whatever that's worth....

Merry Xmas!

Bobby

Edited December 21, 2011 by hidepounder

[cowdog128]

It might be cheating but i have had good results with black sharpee and then finish the edge as described by Hidepounder hope this helps.

[TwinOaks]

Bob, I think you forgot to mention the secret ingredient that you use.........

Experience.

[azrider]

I recently did a wallet with red edges at a customer request. I used a red sharpie marker to dye the edges, and had this issue on all the edges. I used Minwax Polycrylic Clear finish to seal them, and it worked well. This is avalible at Home Depot in 8 oz tins. I also use this on the back side of belts and dog collars, after it has been dyed. My dog's collar has held up great for 2 years now. This stuff is water based, but once dry is very water resistant, but is still flexible.

[korokan]

So,

I re-edged the belts, got them down to bare leather. Burnished with wood and water. Dyed the edges. Let them sit for two days. I put several light coats of clear lac let it sit a day. And bam today, tested it out and it just rubs off. I swear I am never dying and edge again!!! They will just stay two different colors, I don't know what else to do.

I talk to Flebings cause they are the manufacturer about this. I have the same problem. They told me to send a sample and I never did. Tehy are saying they never heard of such thing. I have read in a lot of forum that this thing happens. There should be no specail techinique you have to go though to make it stick.If you check the demo on Tandy leather it says you burnish the edges then apply edge kote . In my experience you have to apply edge dye then burnish it which is against the instruction that they had.I saw in some video by other people that the burnishing has to be done last .

[Fowlingpiece]

Dye the edges THEN burnish.

[camano ridge]

This is bumping a thread from 2011However Korokan since you woke this thread up I agree you dye then burnish. However EdgeKote is not a dye it is a paint it is desingned to go on after you burnish. If you burnish you are to some extent closing the pores of the leather it makes it harder for the edge to absorb the dye. This may start a controversy, I personaly don't like edge kote. I dye my edges then burnich some times after the dying then doing an initial burnish I will rub paraffin wax on the edge then burnish again. I have had no complaints about my edges, not sying it is the best way just the way it works for me.

Edited October 13, 2013 by camano ridge

[hidepounder]

_{I prefer to burnish my edges BEFORE I dye them. I do this because I get a much cleaner, straighter dye line. There is nothing wrong with dying first, but if you are using an spirit based dye, the dye wants to spread and it's harder to get a clean line. I've been using Fiebings and Lincoln spirit dyes since the '60's and don't have any problem with the dye absorbing into the leather. I finish the edge by applying paraffin to the edge after my dye has dried and I polish the edge to a high luster. There is always excess or residual dye which is removed during that process. Problems getting the dye to absorb into the leather are usually related to the use of gum tragacanth or bees wax being used to burnish the edge. Those products seal the leather and dye will not penetrate them. If you like using those products you must dye the edge before burnishing. I avoid the use of edge kotes because they peel off, are dull in finish and don't look as good as a dyed edge. I don't know any professionals who use them. To me, an edge kote would only be used by a production shop in an effort to reduce costs. That suits me just fine because in comparison, my edges just look that much better, LOL!}

[Cyberthrasher]

_{That suits me just fine because in comparison, my edges just look that much better, LOL!}

YES!! I don't match your edging, but I do constantly stress a good edge. I used the EdgeKote once, watched it peel off before my eyes, then stripped it and went back to dye (I have a bottle of edgekote if anybody wants it).

Seriously, following Bob's edging guide, you can't have any problems getting a perfect edge and getting it colored. Throw the Gum Trag out because it's a crutch. I only use Fiebing's Pro Oil and get good coverage every time. Admittedly there are times where It's a little light, but then I just add some oil to the edge and then apply another coat. This is all AFTER burnishing. I tried dying before burnishing once and made a mess of my leather. Also, remember to buff your edge BEFORE you seal it. The edge is just like any other part of the leather and you will have residual pigment left on there.

Here's an edge I did a couple weeks ago for reference. This is sanded, burnished using glycerin saddle soap and a cocobolo burnisher, dyed, buffed, sealed with a touch of Resolene, then a final buff using some beeswax and a piece of denim (buffed until my fingers could feel the heat being generated). That edge will last forever and if feels/looks like glass. Remember, shortcuts only make you money if you're pumping stuff out on an assembly line. Making money through hand crafting requires perfection in hand crafting