Tooling Fades Out ....

[Suicide]

Hi guys,

I did tooling using basket stamp (x511 for instance) and initially had pretty good impressions there with solid brown color - leather was a bit damp at that time. Then leather had dried I noticed what impressions is not as "brownish" as then it was damp and less sharp. I decided let it be (no dies, finishes, oils etc were applied) and see what goes next.

Now 2 days after I noticed 2 things: all the impressions are almost faded away and they lost that solid brown color and became more like leather natural color. So now it looks pretty much as I would tool the dry leather, may be even worse

Can you please give me ideas what the problem might be there? Is it wrong leather (actually it was that "pink-ish" strap from the Tandy's belt kit)? Or did I do something wrong while casing (or may be tooling)?

Thanks in advance!

[Suicide]

I took another leather scrap that I got from one of Holland's shop. It is much thinner than that Tandy's (I would say Tandy is about 8-9 oz to me, that one is about 4 oz).

Well, I have made some investigations, please look at the picture attached.

I damped piece very much (not soaked though) and made the impressions 1 right after damping (0 minutes from "zero" ) just by pressing tool by hand.

After 15 minutes leather looked pretty "wet" and I made impressions 2. Serie of imprints are done by pressing tool by hand and separate imprint number 2 is done with poly mallet strike.

I spent 15 minutes more by watching TV and then (30 minutes since "Zero") I made imprints n.3 in the same way - serie just pressing, separate by mallet. Leather was ALMOST ready for tooling but a bit darker yet.

20 minutes more (50 mnutes from "Zero") - leather went into "just as it has to be for tooliing" - almost original color and cool. I made imprints numbered as 4 in the same way as above.

Finally I took a hairdryer and dry this piece in 10 minutes.

So, what would be your sentense?

To me it sounds like Tandy's leather from the belt kit is sucks - it is hard to compress by tool while tooling and it is losing depressed shapes as it is going to be dry (perhaps of grain layer is going to shrink while drying).

I HOPE I\m wrong about that belt kit blank, so please give me your suggestions.

Thanks in advance!

[HellfireJack]

If you could tell the leather was too damp then the odds are that the leather was just too damp. Some leathers can take hours to reach the "quick case" stage.

[Ferg]

You are not casing your leather coorrectly. Tandy leather has nothing to do with the problems you are having. Access the archives on this forum for casing lleather.

Ferg

te name='Suicide' timestamp='1324934036' post='226189']

I took another leather scrap that I got from one of Holland's shop. It is much thinner than that Tandy's (I would say Tandy is about 8-9 oz to me, that one is about 4 oz).

Well, I have made some investigations, please look at the picture attached.

I damped piece very much (not soaked though) and made the impressions 1 right after damping (0 minutes from "zero" ) just by pressing tool by hand.

After 15 minutes leather looked pretty "wet" and I made impressions 2. Serie of imprints are done by pressing tool by hand and separate imprint number 2 is done with poly mallet strike.

I spent 15 minutes more by watching TV and then (30 minutes since "Zero") I made imprints n.3 in the same way - serie just pressing, separate by mallet. Leather was ALMOST ready for tooling but a bit darker yet.

20 minutes more (50 mnutes from "Zero") - leather went into "just as it has to be for tooliing" - almost original color and cool. I made imprints numbered as 4 in the same way as above.

Finally I took a hairdryer and dry this piece in 10 minutes.

So, what would be your sentense?

To me it sounds like Tandy's leather from the belt kit is sucks - it is hard to compress by tool while tooling and it is losing depressed shapes as it is going to be dry (perhaps of grain layer is going to shrink while drying).

I HOPE I\m wrong about that belt kit blank, so please give me your suggestions.

Thanks in advance!

[terrymac]

Sorry to disagree Ferg, but Tandy belt blanks are horrible. I bought a couple not too long ago, and I defy anyone to get a proper burnish on these blanks. I don't know what the problem is or what they are doing in tanning, but the dang things look chaulky when they dry and the flesh looks like some kind of powder has been added. I do know how to case leather and get a pretty good burnish, but not with these things. I threw them in the trash.

Terry

[HellfireJack]

Sorry Terrymac, Tandy may have sell some cheap leather but this doesn't sound like it's the problem in this situation. The OP even states the leather looked damp when he stamped it. That's a casing issue. You say you know how to case leather so you should know that leather should not look damp at all when you start stamping and leather will not stay burnished if it is damp when stamped because the moisture will force the fibers of leather to relax. End of story. That would make it a casing issue.

I have never ever had an issue with Tandy leather being chalky. In all the leather I've bought from Tandy I've had one issue where the fiber on a portion of a shoulder was too loose and wouldn't take a good impression. That's the only problem I've ever had with Tandy leather and that was my own fault for not checking closely enough when I purchased it.

By the way, why would you not return the bad merchandise and just toss it into the trash? Are you seriously in the habit of throwing away your money like that?

[Suicide]

Thanks a lot for all your input, I very appreciate it.

So most likely it is casing...

If you could tell the leather was too damp then the odds are that the leather was just too damp. Some leathers can take hours to reach the "quick case" stage.

You are not casing your leather coorrectly. Tandy leather has nothing to do with the problems you are having. Access the archives on this forum for casing lleather.

Let me please clarify this.

That belt what faded was cased as per Bob's suggestions - damped, wait until "almost ready", packaged into garbage bag (may be I must kept it in there forever??? ), was sealed there overnight, then opened, wait a bit until ready and tooled.

The piece I showed of course was not cased properly as I just wanted to see if it is my stamping problem or wrong moisture case.

I just buffled a bit because impressions on the "cased like it should be done" (at least I hope it was "like it should be done" ) leather look much worse (to me) than that brutally damped and partially just embossed offcut.

The OP even states the leather looked damp when he stamped it.

Excuse me newbie, sir , but what the "OP" is stand for? And how they should look like if leather stamped at the correct moment? It is good to know what I have to check in the future...

Thanks in advance!

[HellfireJack]

Not a problem Suicide,

OP is original poster or original post. There you told us:

I did tooling using basket stamp (x511 for instance) and initially had pretty good impressions there with solid brown color - leather was a bit damp at that time.

If you properly cased the leather there is no chance it would have been "a bit damp". You check for coolness (evaporation still occurring) against your skin because you can no longer see visible moisture. That means it wouldn't appear damp. It returns to it's original color and all visible moisture is gone. It should appear dry. When you look at the leather it should not appear any different than it was before you wet it.

What you describe in your post is exactly what happens when you tool leather that has too much moisture still. You get an OK impression when you stamp it but when you let it sit the moisture relaxes the fibers and your stamping loses it's clarity and definition and the burnish fades.

[Suicide]

OP is original poster or original post.

Ah, understood now, thanks for clarification. Initiallly I thought OP refers to kind of tool or imprint part Sorry for confusion.

If you properly cased the leather there is no chance it would have been "a bit damp". You check for coolness (evaporation still occurring) against your skin because you can no longer see visible moisture. That means it wouldn't appear damp. It returns to it's original color and all visible moisture is gone. It should appear dry. When you look at the leather it should not appear any different than it was before you wet it.

What you describe in your post is exactly what happens when you tool leather that has too much moisture still. You get an OK impression when you stamp it but when you let it sit the moisture relaxes the fibers and your stamping loses it's clarity and definition and the burnish fades.

Thanks alot for such a detailed explanation, it becomes clear to me now.

I just always afraid to have leather more dry than necessary, so as soon as "dry looked" spots appear on the surface I usually start tooling. So at that time there are some damp spots are still on the surface. That most likely is my mistake there.

Could you please also clarify what to do if during tooling leather starts feeling dry? We mostly have humidity here in continental Finland at this year season about 60% (+ airconditioner in the house) so everything dries pretty fast inside.

Lets say with that belt blank - I went with tool along the blank middle line having 1 row, then I moved to the second row I noticed what I need strike heavily to get impression as good as in the 1st row. 3rd row I need hammer as hell but impressions becomes shallow and not good burnished.... on the 4th row I feel leather almost "dry".

What should I do?

Speedup my tooling so leatther won't dry and row-to-row increase strike force to get even impressions?

Re-wet leather with sponge? If so, that part of it? All the blank? Or just the area which is still untooled?

Or should I re-damp just small untooled area then wait, then tool it, then damp next area, wait, tool it etcetc?

What would be a correct tactics to get well and even burnished tooling all around the blank?

Thanks in advance!

[TwinOaks]

Cover the portions you're not tooling with plastic or glass to prevent over-drying.

If the leather does get too dry, CAREFULLY flip it over and spritz with water....on the flesh side only. This will get moisture back into the leather without getting the grain side too damp. While you're tooling, avoid flexing the tooled areas too much, as it causes the fibers you just compressed with the stamp to start moving.....effectively un-burnishing the stamping.

[terrymac]

Sorry Terrymac, Tandy may have sell some cheap leather but this doesn't sound like it's the problem in this situation. The OP even states the leather looked damp when he stamped it. That's a casing issue. You say you know how to case leather so you should know that leather should not look damp at all when you start stamping and leather will not stay burnished if it is damp when stamped because the moisture will force the fibers of leather to relax. End of story. That would make it a casing issue.

I have never ever had an issue with Tandy leather being chalky. In all the leather I've bought from Tandy I've had one issue where the fiber on a portion of a shoulder was too loose and wouldn't take a good impression. That's the only problem I've ever had with Tandy leather and that was my own fault for not checking closely enough when I purchased it.

By the way, why would you not return the bad merchandise and just toss it into the trash? Are you seriously in the habit of throwing away your money like that?

I had purchased a third blank a little over a year ago that was the same thing. As our kids were about to return to Germany, I went ahead and finished it, and after antiquing, etc., it looked presentable, but not what I like. I just assumed I had gotten a bad piece, but the new ones were the same. Why return them when I would end up some more of the same? I just got me a new side of Herman Oak, so problem is solved. Maybe I am too picky, but with the time invested, the cost of the leather is the cheapest part of the project.

Terry

[Suicide]

Maybe I am too picky, but with the time invested, the cost of the leather is the cheapest part of the project.

That is what I completely agree with!

Cover the portions you're not tooling with plastic or glass to prevent over-drying.

If the leather does get too dry, CAREFULLY flip it over and spritz with water....on the flesh side only. This will get moisture back into the leather without getting the grain side too damp. While you're tooling, avoid flexing the tooled areas too much, as it causes the fibers you just compressed with the stamp to start moving.....effectively un-burnishing the stamping.

Thanks, TwinOaks, it is definitely make sense.

So thanks everybody for your pointed me the root cause.

I'm going to practice with more

Happy New Year!

[HellfireJack]

No Problem Suicide, glad to help!

I had purchased a third blank a little over a year ago that was the same thing. As our kids were about to return to Germany, I went ahead and finished it, and after antiquing, etc., it looked presentable, but not what I like. I just assumed I had gotten a bad piece, but the new ones were the same. Why return them when I would end up some more of the same? I just got me a new side of Herman Oak, so problem is solved. Maybe I am too picky, but with the time invested, the cost of the leather is the cheapest part of the project.

Terry

You don't have to exchange them. You should get your money back and I would post pictures of those items here and I would make sure Tandy knew I was doing it in hopes that they change their cheap leather selling ways. For all the people who complain about Tandy you never see the actual complaints except for the occasional newbie now and then who bends a kit Crafttool. I would hope that if Tandy did ever see actual complaints here and on other websites they'd respond in some way. The only real issues I've ever seen posted are about bent Crafttools and we all know that Tandy will replace those without question.

Of course there are those people who purchase an extremely low priced piece of leather and expect it to be the same quality as the high end products like W&C or Herman Oak. That's about as silly as someone buying a Honda Civic and expecting it to perform like a Ferrari.

Edited December 27, 2011 by HellfireJack

[Chef niloc]

A trick I found is to cover the back with clear packing tape.other tape works, but packing tape is what I found to work best. This trick is particularly useful when folding leather to keep the tooling crisp.

1) Case leather as described above

2) Cover back with tape

3) Stamp

4) Let sit for a day or two (fully dry)

5) Take off tape

If folding:After steps 1-3

4) After stamping let the piece sit over night

5) Fold

6) Let sit for a day or so

7) Take tape off.

Note: using "block out" after the 1st day of drying or after folding but before the tape is taken off helps to.

The tape does three things:

1) keeps the leather cased bette

r2) Reduces stretching when stamping

3) Reduces shrinking when drying

Other things that may help to:

1) use casing solution, store bought or home made

2) A hi-tec speed casing can be with a home vacuum sealer (food saver) the vacuum insures that the leather is cased evenly and compresses the fibers. Will case leather in a hour or two but I usually still let it sit over night. It's also great if you want to keep leather per-cased as it will keep mold from growing for weeks unrefrigerated.

3)Slick the leather on a hard surface to compress and even out the cells.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Chef niloc

[Suicide]

A trick I found is to cover the back with clear packing tape.other tape works, but packing tape is what I found to work best. This trick is particularly useful when folding leather to keep the tooling crisp.

Thanks for these tips, I'll try this out.