Juki Juki Tsc-441

[GONG]

Thank´s guys!

I refresh my question since I don´t know the language in this yet.

I wan´t to buy an original machine. Are there Japaneese and American made Jukis?

My original question..

Hi Leatherworkers.

I´ve been spending thousand of hours on the internet finding out about witch sewing machine would be the best for my projects.

The conclusion is the japanese Juki tsc-441. Heard that the US Jukis are crapier than the Japans, could that be true?

There is one catch though.. I´m not a wealthy guy and only the head is 70.000 skr here in Sweden.

And then a 220 v servo motor witch has good power on top.

Does anyone know were in the world I can order this machine at a lower cost?

Or were there might be used ones?

Would be so thankful for some guiding in this..

Mattias

liljaoffshore@gmail.com

Edited January 7, 2012 by GONG

[Art]

No.

Art

Thank´s guys!

I refresh my question since I don´t know the language in this yet.

I wan´t to buy an original machine. Are there Japaneese and American made Jukis?

My original question..

Hi Leatherworkers.

I´ve been spending thousand of hours on the internet finding out about witch sewing machine would be the best for my projects.

The conclusion is the japanese Juki tsc-441. Heard that the US Jukis are crapier than the Japans, could that be true?

There is one catch though.. I´m not a wealthy guy and only the head is 70.000 skr here in Sweden.

And then a 220 v servo motor witch has good power on top.

Does anyone know were in the world I can order this machine at a lower cost?

Or were there might be used ones?

Would be so thankful for some guiding in this..

Mattias

liljaoffshore@gmail.com

[Trox]

Hi,

First, Juki is made in Japan not in USA (and maybe in China too) The TSC 441 is a very popular model that is copied a lot by Chinese manufacturers. These copies, called china clones are imported to the US marked and sold under different brands like Cobra and Cowboy. They are set up to sew leather up to 7/8 of an inch and have many accessories for use on leather. The Chinese produce most of the big sewing machine brands now, even Dürkopp Adler, and the quality is much better than before. Not many buy an original Juki 441 anymore when a good clone is available for a third of the price. The clones can even sew thicker and have more extras than the original. A lot of our member use them daily and are satisfied with them. However, if you decide you want to buy an original Juki 441, the head only cost about 32000 to 35000 NOK in Norway. I cannot believe it cost as much as 70000 SEK in Sweden. One of the best copies of the 441 is made by Global (Global also make machines for Dürkopp Adler). Global is a well-known company, I believe the head is about 25000 NOK. It is also possible to buy a clone complete with stand and motor (an other brand) for that same price here in Norway.

Trox

Thank´s guys!

I refresh my question since I don´t know the language in this yet.

I wan´t to buy an original machine. Are there Japaneese and American made Jukis?

My original question..

Hi Leatherworkers.

I´ve been spending thousand of hours on the internet finding out about witch sewing machine would be the best for my projects.

The conclusion is the japanese Juki tsc-441. Heard that the US Jukis are crapier than the Japans, could that be true?

There is one catch though.. I´m not a wealthy guy and only the head is 70.000 skr here in Sweden.

And then a 220 v servo motor witch has good power on top.

Does anyone know were in the world I can order this machine at a lower cost?

Or were there might be used ones?

Would be so thankful for some guiding in this..

Mattias

liljaoffshore@gmail.com

[Art]

If you get a TSC-441 from Juki (or a Juki dealer) it will come set-up to sew canvas or other heavy material, dacron, sunbrella, etc. There will have to be modifications made to sew leather. The dealers like Cobra, Cowboy, and Techsew know how to do this as they do it for their own machines (even the clones come out of the box to sew fabric). So figure on the cost of the Juki, and the amount to change it over to leather production. The dependability of the Juki is not THAT much greater than the respectable clones, aka dealers at the top of the page. If you worry about that, you could buy two clones completely set-up for the price of the bare bones Juki.

Art

Thank´s guys!

I refresh my question since I don´t know the language in this yet.

I wan´t to buy an original machine. Are there Japaneese and American made Jukis?

My original question..

Hi Leatherworkers.

I´ve been spending thousand of hours on the internet finding out about witch sewing machine would be the best for my projects.

The conclusion is the japanese Juki tsc-441. Heard that the US Jukis are crapier than the Japans, could that be true?

There is one catch though.. I´m not a wealthy guy and only the head is 70.000 skr here in Sweden.

And then a 220 v servo motor witch has good power on top.

Does anyone know were in the world I can order this machine at a lower cost?

Or were there might be used ones?

Would be so thankful for some guiding in this..

Mattias

liljaoffshore@gmail.com

[GONG]

Thanks Trox and Art

Finally remembered my password.

Thanks for your nice replies! I´ve decided to buy an original Juki tsc-441. My products (obviously my designs) have been cloned and that didn´t feel good.

Do you know a Juki dealer that keep low prices?

I can easily drive to Norway to get it. Is it 32-35.000 + VAT?

Got a price from Poland.. 3600 E + VAT 23%.

From the States (5200 USD)

Prices Juki tsc-441 head only.

All Best

GONG

[Trox]

Thanks Trox and Art

Finally remembered my password.

Thanks for your nice replies! I´ve decided to buy an original Juki tsc-441. My products (obviously my designs) have been cloned and that didn´t feel good.

Do you know a Juki dealer that keep low prices?

I can easily drive to Norway to get it. Is it 32-35.000 + VAT?

Got a price from Poland.. 3600 E + VAT 23%.

From the States (5200 USD)

Prices Juki tsc-441 head only.

All Best

GONG

Tjenare Gong,

　

I cannot believe the price is so much different, normally Norway is much more expensive country than Sweden. I asked my contact in Amatec.no Oslo, and he told me the price is from 30000 to 35000 NOK for the head only. That is the normal price, I have requested prices from that and an other company for export to Sweden. I may also know of a used one for sale, I will give you that price to if I am not buying it my self. I will send you a PM and post the prices here too when I get the quotes.

Trox

[GONG]

Tjenere Trox!

Wow Thanks dude! I will never tell a norwegian joke again it feels like..

For shure I´m interested in the used one if you´re not.

It´s true.. The machine head is ex. works, ex. VAT (25%) 56.000 sek. And that´s negotiated from 59. Forget that I will buy it in Sweden!

I´ve heard that some things actually swedes go and get in Norway. Guns are classic offcourse.

I have tested a Durkopp-Adler 205-307 at a dealer. It was nice. We drove full speed on four layers of webbing together 15 mm.

There was a EFKA 670W motor on it. He said that the new generation servo motors don´t need a speed reducer.

I´m new in this so they can tell me anything and I belive it. But it was strong and extremly slow or really fast, and no steps what I could feel.

Think he used 6# thread.

Anyway I think the Juki tsc-441 looks neater. And the Durkopp was 75.000sek complete + VAT 25%. Haha.

Looking forward to hear more!

[Trox]

Tjenere Trox!

Wow Thanks dude! I will never tell a norwegian joke again it feels like..

For shure I´m interested in the used one if you´re not.

It´s true.. The machine head is ex. works, ex. VAT (25%) 56.000 sek. And that´s negotiated from 59. Forget that I will buy it in Sweden!

I´ve heard that some things actually swedes go and get in Norway. Guns are classic offcourse.

I have tested a Durkopp-Adler 205-307 at a dealer. It was nice. We drove full speed on four layers of webbing together 15 mm.

There was a EFKA 670W motor on it. He said that the new generation servo motors don´t need a speed reducer.

I´m new in this so they can tell me anything and I belive it. But it was strong and extremly slow or really fast, and no steps what I could feel.

Think he used 6# thread.

Anyway I think the Juki tsc-441 looks neater. And the Durkopp was 75.000sek complete + VAT 25%. Haha.

Looking forward to hear more!

Tjenere Gong,

We do not mind a good joke, we are also telling jokes about Swedes. However, I keep it out of the Forum and the web.

Looks like you met a very greedy dealer. There is no reason for such high prices, or do you have import taxes on new sewing machines in Sweden?

You will follow the EU prices and can buy the machine in all of Europe.

Norway is an EFTA country and follows many of the EU rules and regulations. Nevertheless, you have to check with the Swedish custom about any import taxes.

The DA 205-370 is a very good machine; it will sew the same thickness as the Juki 441. It is a more expensive machine, with superior quality and a very nice stitch.

But there is not that easy to get aftermarket saddlers attachments for the Adler as it is for the 441 (the price is much higher).

What are you going to use your machine for? If you want to use it on leather, it must be set up for it. You must change feed dog, sewing feet’s for smooth ones and maybe the needle plate too. You will need different needle plates, extra feet and guides. Buying this equipment in Norway will be very expensive, you can buy it from Cobra or Cowboy but that accessory are made for clone machines and may have to be modified to fit an Original Juki.

Then again, it maybe will fit, I do not know.

A clone machine like the Cowboy CB 4500 is already set up for the job on leather, with a foot lift on 27 mm. max sewing thickness at 22 mm. A Juki TSC 441 has a max foot lift on 20 mm. (the same as Adler 205-370) they will both sew about 16 to 17 mm. thick. Therefore, you see, it all depends of what you going to use it for.

http://www.tolindsewmach.com/cb4500.html

http://www.juki.co.jp/industrial_e/products_e/leather_e/cat94/tsh411_tsn421_tsc441_tsu471.html

http://www.leathermachineco.com/catalog.php?item=1

http://www.sieck.de/en/machines/sewing/triple-transport-machines/prod/1013/

http://www.olafnyby.net/Brochure/brochure2.htm

The price on a tool has to be calculated down on the time you should use it, in about 5 years it maybe a new machine for sale that is much better. A price of a good clone is about 14000 NOK in USA. It is complete with every thing you need for the job. The modern Efka 1550, 600 W. will not need a speed reducer on thicknesses up to 16 mm. The older dc 1600 has 750 W. and will do that with out problems, but on thicker work, you may need one in addition.

I have two Efka a dc 1600 and an older one. You have total control with those new Efka motors.

I will be back with the quotes when I receive them.

Trox

[GONG]

Tjenere Trox

Thanks again, your information and your links really put me forward in this.

It was incouraging to see pictures of your work.

I´m going to use the machine for making bags in leather and canvas (50/50).

Coming from another branch has thought me that I want to produce my own things and sell them

directly to the user that can start using them at once. Don´t even have to give them a bag to

carry it home with.

I need one machine that can do as many tasks as possible. My workshop is a boat.

The things that are important in priority order..

As thick thread as possible. (estethic)

Long stithes.

Slim under arm. (preferably diagonal as the shoe machine under).

Slim or compact design.

The motor is gonna be mounted on the back of the machine. It´s gonna be moved around a lot.

Thickness capacity is something that I can negotiate if it´s necessary.

What I like with the 441 is the openness. The 205.. is more clumsy were you suppose to have your face all day.

Starting to melt a little bit about the Cobra machine. I can order it I can also find out more and save up more money, if there is

a machine more optional.

http://www.mecval.com/index.php?topic=machinery&cat=sewing⊂=cs+93+s&plang=en

http://www.imca.net/ho-hsing/products/HVP-70-series

Can I ask if there is a trade fair anywhere (not US or Asia) that has machines. It´s so mutch to learn.

Been studying on the internet for months now. But sewing machines are not like steam-engines.

People don´t nerd out on them as on mopeds or djonk rigs.

All best Mattias

The Sieckpage was nice. Do you know any other really big dealers in northern Europe.

[Trox]

Hi Mattias,

First of all, that was not my web page you looked at. It is Olav Nyby in Furnes Norway who also sells a 441 clone machine. (At the bottom of his site for 25 K Nok.)

The first clone he sold was an Artisan 3200. I do not know what brand he sells now, he imports from USA. (Not Artisan)

There are no machine that can sew all thicknesses and thread sizes.

For your kind of work, the best machine would be a medium triple feed cylinder or post bed.

A narrow cylinder like the Pfaff 335, Juki 145, 245, Dürkopp Adler 69, or a 669 will be good for small stuff. But they have a small bobbin and can not take heavy thread.

A medium heavy machine like the new D.A. 869, will do the job and take threads up to tkt 10 (synthetic), it is a new version of my Pfaff 345-H3 with big bobbin, high lift. Similar Juki is; LS 1340 serial. Those machines will sew up to 10-11 mm thick and be much better on soft skin and thin bag leather than the big 441 machine is.

The 441 is a machine for extreme heavy work, it has a long needle and big foot lift. Thin needles will brake easily. Those machines performs better on thicker work like harnesses,

Saddles and holsters with many layer of thick leather.

Sewing thick thread on thin leather is a difficult task, in order to make the seams look good, the thread loop must be adjusted to be in the middle of the material. Not lay on the top, or on the bottom. With thick thread and thin material there will be little to no room for the thread loop. It is possible to get right with a lot of adjustments every time. You will experience this when you start working with those heavy threads. Finishing seams with thick thread is also a challenge if you want quality work. There is a reason why bag makers uses the thread sizes they do.

I have seven sewing machines myself, rating from medium heavy to extreme heavy. I do a lot of work on leather back packs and bags; I always use the medium triple feed machines for this kind of work.

Take the material you will use in your bags, bring it with you to a sewing machine dealer and make some test seam. Measure its thickness and ask them to find the best machine for the job. All I am saying is the biggest tool is not necessary the best one for the job.

I have not received the price on the head yet, but the used 441 was already sold for 15000 Nok. Too bad.

I will send you a PM when I receive the quote.

Trox

Tjenere Trox

Thanks again, your information and your links really put me forward in this.

It was incouraging to see pictures of your work.

I´m going to use the machine for making bags in leather and canvas (50/50).

Coming from another branch has thought me that I want to produce my own things and sell them

directly to the user that can start using them at once. Don´t even have to give them a bag to

carry it home with.

I need one machine that can do as many tasks as possible. My workshop is a boat.

The things that are important in priority order..

As thick thread as possible. (estethic)

Long stithes.

Slim under arm. (preferably diagonal as the shoe machine under).

Slim or compact design.

The motor is gonna be mounted on the back of the machine. It´s gonna be moved around a lot.

Thickness capacity is something that I can negotiate if it´s necessary.

What I like with the 441 is the openness. The 205.. is more clumsy were you suppose to have your face all day.

Starting to melt a little bit about the Cobra machine. I can order it I can also find out more and save up more money, if there is

a machine more optional.

http://www.mecval.co...s+93+s&plang=en

http://www.imca.net/...s/HVP-70-series

Can I ask if there is a trade fair anywhere (not US or Asia) that has machines. It´s so mutch to learn.

Been studying on the internet for months now. But sewing machines are not like steam-engines.

People don´t nerd out on them as on mopeds or djonk rigs.

All best Mattias

The Sieckpage was nice. Do you know any other really big dealers in northern Europe.