My Wc Experience

[dickf]

Let me start by saying that I don't do a large amount of holsters and gear per month. I'm not a big-time holstermaker, and I definitely don't measure my success by quantity. I don't buy 10+ sides at a time - I buy 1 at a time.

With that, I've been using Springfield Leather for my source fo Hermann Oak leather for a while now. Kevin always seems to know what I'm looking for, and the leather I get is top-notch. Plus, Springfield has other things to play with like shark, horse, etc. A few months ago I decided to give Wickett and Craig (WC) a try - you know, just to see how they compare.

The allure of using WC was that I was buying direct from the tanner, and they would split it to 8oz even for no charge - plus, they 'holster' the leather for free. My first side took 2 weeks to come in. When it did, it was as limp as a wet noodle. It was absolutely good for nothing to me, albeit very pretty leather. Evidently, it was split too thin and wasn't holstered. It went back. After 2 more weeks of waiting, I got what I ordered the first time (I had to be refunded, then charged again, it it matters). Man, this leather was gorgeous and firm. I made several holsters from this side and they all turned out great. On Dec 21 I ordered again from Glenn and was advised that it might take them some time to get it to me because they were busy. He quoted me a week to ship it out. Fine with me. A week and a day later, I hadn't been charged yet, so I called. I was told it was going out this week. I called again on Jan 9th and was informed that it would be going out that day or at the latest, Wednesday. I cancelled my order yesterday because ti was still somewhere in the tannery. At no point were any of the sales staff really concerned, and the only time they did anything fast was when I wanted to cancel my order. Wickett and Craig has amazing leather, but their customer service is piss poor. I guess I'm just a small fish in a big pond to them.

Right after I got off the phone with WC, I called Springfield, placed an order, and a few hours later got the tracking number via email. <-- This is service. Springfield has always made me feel like they want my business, and actually care about the customer. Thanks, Kevin!

Edited January 13, 2012 by dickf

[JoelR]

Sorry you had a bad experience with Wickett & Craig. I use there leather exclusively and have never had anything but a good experience with them.

[Eaglestroker]

Dick, sorry you had a bad experience. I started with W&C per recommendation and have used nothing but since, haven't had any issues. This has only been 5 sides over the course of a year as well. Springfield is still a top notch supplier and I use them for a lot of my supplies, quality stuff at an affordable price and quick shipping to boot.

[Art]

Big manufacturing companies tend to run their inventory low in December to keep it off their balance sheets, then have a large order for delivery in January to ramp up production. You probably got behind a few of these Big orders. I seldom order anything for January delivery for this very reason.

They are pretty good folks up in Pennsylvania, but small or large, they probably service every fish in order. I can't say I have ever had a problem with that, I am deep enough in stock and small enough that I am not concerned with "just in time" supply strategy.

Art

I guess I'm just a small fish in a big pond to them.

[dickf]

Big manufacturing companies tend to run their inventory low in December to keep it off their balance sheets, then have a large order for delivery in January to ramp up production. You probably got behind a few of these Big orders. I seldom order anything for January delivery for this very reason.

They are pretty good folks up in Pennsylvania, but small or large, they probably service every fish in order. I can't say I have ever had a problem with that, I am deep enough in stock and small enough that I am not concerned with "just in time" supply strategy.

Art

While your explanation could be the reason for my experience, I was told different things about when it would ship. I assumed that telling me that it would ship out the same day or within the next 2 days meant that they had information about where it was in the process. After all, they had 3 weeks to get an overstock side to me, and still couldn't ship it when they said they would. Like I said, I love the leather and everything about it. If I could actually get it, I'd still be using it. Too bad.

[awharness]

Ive had good luck with them, I was ordering bridle sides, they finished beautiful but had a softer hand. For some things this was good but for others not so much. They sent me out the sample cards, and a bigger chunk of the "Show Harness" Ive been buying the show harness now and really like it. At Weavers auction I bought a dozen sides, some "Show harness" some "Work Harness" and for the most part it's good, obv. the leather at the auction wasnt the best they offer!

One thing about them that blows my mind is the Color names! They have all these differnt tanages, and then they will have some common names, but they're not the same color! Med. Brown in bridle isnt Med Brown in Harness, or Show harness! Colors are confusing for me anyways! Dark brown or black! Other then Color, the sides seem to run a bit light in weight, not a big issue, they're consistant! and the leather finishes off beautiful! Harness, Show harness, bridle, Work harness... I dont care what they call it, but they're who I call!

-Andrew

While your explanation could be the reason for my experience, I was told different things about when it would ship. I assumed that telling me that it would ship out the same day or within the next 2 days meant that they had information about where it was in the process. After all, they had 3 weeks to get an overstock side to me, and still couldn't ship it when they said they would. Like I said, I love the leather and everything about it. If I could actually get it, I'd still be using it. Too bad.

[Shooter McGavin]

I ordered a couple of sides of their " tooling/holster/carving" leather a couple of months ago. They sent me skirting. When I called they could not tell me what the differences were. WUT???

The skirting has worked out pretty well for me, but still, it's not what I ordered, and was never asked if the skirting would be OK for me.

[usmc0341]

I think I'll stay with Springfield Leather. Every time I order they have great communication and are just an all around great company. If it ain't broke I ain't gonna try to fix it!

[Rayban]

I experienced a bottle neck of sorts around Christmas time myself at W&C....I just chalked it up as a learning experience for me....I'll make sure I don't need to order too close to Dec. for now on.

I love the leather and the folks there have been very generous with their time with me, so I wouldn't think of throwing them under the bus publicly.

[dickf]

I experienced a bottle neck of sorts around Christmas time myself at W&C....I just chalked it up as a learning experience for me....I'll make sure I don't need to order too close to Dec. for now on.

I love the leather and the folks there have been very generous with their time with me, so I wouldn't think of throwing them under the bus publicly.

Again, I also love the leather. Their leather would be my first choice and I made some incredible holsters with it.

Under the bus? No, that was my experience, and the title of this thread. I waited 3 weeks to get something I was told would take 1, and I still never got it. Do you do business like that? If you did, could you fault anyone for telling others?

Like I said, maybe I'm a small fish in a big pond and my experience was an isolated incident amongst everyone else. That doesn't mean that it didn't happen and can't happen again. Perhaps I'll roll the dice again someday, as it was great material.

[Bobby hdflame]

Again, I also love the leather. Their leather would be my first choice and I made some incredible holsters with it.

Under the bus? No, that was my experience, and the title of this thread. I waited 3 weeks to get something I was told would take 1, and I still never got it. Do you do business like that? If you did, could you fault anyone for telling others?

Like I said, maybe I'm a small fish in a big pond and my experience was an isolated incident amongst everyone else. That doesn't mean that it didn't happen and can't happen again. Perhaps I'll roll the dice again someday, as it was great material.

I, for one, am glad you posted your experience. I like to know when members on the forum have problems. Sometimes it sounds like people can be a little too demanding, but that doesn't sound like it applies in your case. You were pretty patient but don't tell me something is gonna ship and not follow through. I'd rather hear the truth even if it's going to be a while. Then I can make an informed decision as to whether or not I want to wait or cancel.

I'm in the process of buying a new Cobra Class 24 from Steve at Leather Machine Co. just because of what I've read on this forum. I've purchased from Springfield also, but not any leather yet. However, after reading about your experience, I'll be trying some leather from them soon. Thanks!

[Go2Tex]

I've been using W&C for years, mainly for their drum dyed skirting and for the most part have been fairly satisfied. Occasionally things go wrong but they always are very good about making it right. Of course, this take time and time is money. I waited for several weeks for some brown skirting last year. I forget how long it took, but it was very unusual for them. I don't know if it was the change in ownership a few years back or what, but I've noticed a change in the quality of the leather. It's not as consistent. I started noticing raw untanned areas which never happened before. More fat wrinkles, too. And the price just keeps going through the freaking roof! That's probably the devalued dollar and government over-regulation.

My biggest complaint about W&C is their phone answering system. Instead of just connecting you to the next available sales person, they give you all their extentions to pick from and you have no idea who is actually even in the office. I want to talk to a live human being, tell him what I want and get some indication of which century I can expect to get my order. How damned hard is that?

Right now I'm looking for some really premium latigo. Not that flimsy veg tanned stuff, but the waxy, retan firm stuff Weaver used to sell. Their Chahin is ok but not quite as nice. I tried their Hermann Oak latigo for some tie straps, and I had a long time customer actually send it back to me! She had noticed the difference right off the bat. Not good.

[Rayban]

I've been using W&C for years, mainly for their drum dyed skirting and for the most part have been fairly satisfied. Occasionally things go wrong but they always are very good about making it right. Of course, this take time and time is money. I waited for several weeks for some brown skirting last year. I forget how long it took, but it was very unusual for them. I don't know if it was the change in ownership a few years back or what, but I've noticed a change in the quality of the leather. It's not as consistent. I started noticing raw untanned areas which never happened before. More fat wrinkles, too. And the price just keeps going through the freaking roof! That's probably the devalued dollar and government over-regulation.

My biggest complaint about W&C is their phone answering system. Instead of just connecting you to the next available sales person, they give you all their extentions to pick from and you have no idea who is actually even in the office. I want to talk to a live human being, tell him what I want and get some indication of which century I can expect to get my order. How damned hard is that?

Right now I'm looking for some really premium latigo. Not that flimsy veg tanned stuff, but the waxy, retan firm stuff Weaver used to sell. Their Chahin is ok but not quite as nice. I tried their Hermann Oak latigo for some tie straps, and I had a long time customer actually send it back to me! She had noticed the difference right off the bat. Not good.

Sounds like legit complaints to me...am I safe to assume you've shared these things with the powers that be @ W&C?

[K-Man]

Chris: I've read/heard of experiences like yours from other folks here. Not a good thing in my opinion that that could happen. I only use H.O. now, and have found their customer service, and that of their outlets I've used, to be quite good.

Go2Tex: You might consider the folks at ALD in KY. I've seen some of their latigo and also have a small sample pack. I'm just around the corner from you - just north of Karnes City, along 80. Give me a shout if you want to stop by.

Edited January 22, 2012 by K-Man

[Go2Tex]

Chris: I've read/heard of experiences like yours from other folks here. Not a good thing in my opinion that that could happen. I only use H.O. now, and have found their customer service, and that of their outlets I've used, to be quite good.

Go2Tex: You might consider the folks at ALD in KY. I've seen some of their latigo and also have a small sample pack. I'm just around the corner from you - just north of Karnes City, along 80. Give me a shout if you want to stop by.

Thanks for the invite. I will definitely have to do that. Would love to see your shop and talk leatherwork.

[Scary Leatherworks]

My 2 cents. I have used WC twice and I love their leather. I do agree they are slow in the shipping but I just plan for it and wait. I too am a small fish but they treat me right. I just figure if I want a quality product I have to wait for it the same as the people who order a briefcase from me have to wait 2+ months. I say don't give up on them just know ahead of time it takes 2-3 weeks for leather no matter what. But I also really like Springfield Leather and are always a pleasure to do business with

[Bobby hdflame]

Chris: I've read/heard of experiences like yours from other folks here. Not a good thing in my opinion that that could happen. I only use H.O. now, and have found their customer service, and that of their outlets I've used, to be quite good.

Go2Tex: You might consider the folks at ALD in KY. I've seen some of their latigo and also have a small sample pack. I'm just around the corner from you - just north of Karnes City, along 80. Give me a shout if you want to stop by.

I really appreciate reading about actual honest experiences from forum members. So far, I've only bought leather locally. I have purchased some other supplies like Kydex from Springfield.

Sometimes, long time members of forums use abbreviations that leaves us, with less experience, in the dark. Could someone share with me what these mean, or point me in the direction of a chart that has them listed?

Here's the ones I need help with: H.O., ALD.....I figured out what W&C is. That one was easy!

[K-Man]

Bobby hdflame: Sorry about that. ALD = American Leather Direct - leather tannery in KY. H.O. = Hermann Oak - leather tannery in MO.

[dickf]

My 2 cents. I have used WC twice and I love their leather. I do agree they are slow in the shipping but I just plan for it and wait. I too am a small fish but they treat me right. I just figure if I want a quality product I have to wait for it the same as the people who order a briefcase from me have to wait 2+ months. I say don't give up on them just know ahead of time it takes 2-3 weeks for leather no matter what. But I also really like Springfield Leather and are always a pleasure to do business with

I don't mind to wait at all. I mind when I'm told one thing and something different is actually happening. If it is going to take 2-3 weeks, then tell me that. Don't tell me it will ship in 1 week, and then 3 weeks later that it's still somewhere in the splitting department. You know?

I also didn't order after I ran out - I ordered in anticipation of running out soon. If they would have given a more accurate timeline, I would have ordered from Springfield AND Wickett and Craig...and this thread wouldn't exist!

With that said, it's pretty amazing the differences between the two leathers and I can see why using 1 for different types of holsters is beneficial. They're both great.

[Bobby hdflame]

Bobby hdflame: Sorry about that. ALD = American Leather Direct - leather tannery in KY. H.O. = Hermann Oak - leather tannery in MO.

OK, Thanks for that info. Now, I know who to Google to find out more about them. I figured that Googling ALD would have been a shot in the dark!

[skipj]

Holster the leather? A new term for me. Could someone explain. Thanks

SkipJ

[Bobby hdflame]

One questiion, just a little off topic...do we have a forum/thread with a list of recommended suppliers? I know there are companies that advertise on the site, and I've found that they are usually pretty reputable or the members would let everyone know otherwise. But I thought that maybe there was a list of favorites of the members.

[dickf]

Holster the leather? A new term for me. Could someone explain. Thanks

SkipJ

It was new to me, too. They put it through giant rollers that exert several tons of pressure on the leather making it firmer and stiffer when dried. It's awesome, really, and it does work. It also costs nothing extra.

One questiion, just a little off topic...do we have a forum/thread with a list of recommended suppliers? I know there are companies that advertise on the site, and I've found that they are usually pretty reputable or the members would let everyone know otherwise. But I thought that maybe there was a list of favorites of the members.

Yes, in fact, there's an entire sub-forum dedicated to suppliers: http://leatherworker...hp?showforum=21

Edited January 23, 2012 by dickf

[Steven Kelley]

Holster the leather? A new term for me. Could someone explain. Thanks

SkipJ

I think they also call it "plated". At least the way the rep from WC explained it to me, they run it through rollers to compress the leather and make it a little firmer. So based on that, I would say "holstering" and "plating" are the same thing.

[skipj]

Thanks for the info. Does this make much of a change in the thickness of the leather?

SkipJ