Give Me Your Thoughts On This Design

[Abram]

Not really a new design as I am sure someone thought of it somewhere. I would like to get your opinions on the concept.

Thank you

[dickf]

High ride with an extreme forward cant. The weight of the gun is above the belt, and there's no meat left underneath to counter the roll you're going to get. IMO, you won't be happy with how it rides, and even with a gun belt, the holster is going to want to roll away from your body. The rear slot is also too far away from the gun, so even if it doesn't roll, the butt will tip out. This is all even more prominent the further back toward 5:00 you wear this holster, which is required to draw the gun with the amount of muzzle rake you have going on there. Finally, the leather at the muzzle will pucker once you insert the gun, which might expose it.

It's a good start, but I think if you're looking for a high-ride extreme cant holster, you need to lower it, and give the holster some more meat under the belt to counter the roll.

[Abram]

dickf,

Thank you for the suggestions and critique. I have tweaked the design. The gun rides lower and I have brought the belt loops in a bit.

[gicts]

How would the belt slots work? With a thick gun belt I can imagine a few problems

[Abram]

How would the belt slots work? With a thick gun belt I can imagine a few problems

I don't understand, could you please elaborate?

[electrathon]

I would add a sweat shield and straighten out the belt slots. They may look cooler slanted, but will hold the gun firmer if they are 90 degrees to the belt.

Aaron

[Shooter McGavin]

I would think that a slanted slot gives more surface area which would be more secure?

[DoubleBarP]

Let me preface this with I am not a designer. I do however have over 3 decades of experience of daily carry. So I have some insight into what works and what doesn't. (And several "boxes" of holsters to prove it)

My observations as an end user:

Holster Cant - too much unless you are going for a middle of the back concealment (not recommended due to potential spinal injury and other "printing" issues that may arise.

For a person with flexibility issues such as elbow or shoulderit would make draw somewhat difficult.

Gun positioned too far above the belt line will cause gun to"flop" away from body just moving and as the belt streaches.

Recommend lowering gun grip to just above beltline (can get a shooting grip while still in the holster). This may require somewhere in 10-12 degree of an angle which should lower more of the gun below the belt thus giving it more stability.

Belt loops at 90 degrees to belt.

Not really a new design as I am sure someone thought of it somewhere. I would like to get your opinions on the concept.

Thank you

Edited February 4, 2012 by DoubleBarP

[TwinOaks]

The front slot also needs to be brought in closer to the weapon, which gives the weight of the gun more support from the belt and less mechanical advantage in stretching the holster or belt.

3rd vote: Straight belt slots. By straightening the slots, they'll actually make less of a hole in the leather and leave more leather to support the piece.

[dickf]

I would add a sweat shield and straighten out the belt slots. They may look cooler slanted, but will hold the gun firmer if they are 90 degrees to the belt.

Aaron

Where's the logic in this? Angled slots are used all the time, and if you have ever made or used a holster with them, you'd know that they are not a disadvantage. In fact, Gary Brommeland makes a rig where his rear slot at an angle is a feature of the holster. http://brommelandgunleather.com/Products/def-con.htm

As I previously stated, the degree of muzzle rake you have going on in this holster is extreme, but for some folks, is required because they wear the gun back around 5:00. Try drawing from a straight-drop or one with 10 degrees when it's back there - not happening. I also think that the front slot was better where it was, because if you bring it in too far, you're not going to get a bend in the front of the holster for the belt to thread through and the holster won't want to contour against the body. It looks like your revised pattern has the gun low enough to get away with it, but keep in mind, it's not going to work without a gun belt. Just my opinion.

[electrathon]

Where's the logic in this? Angled slots are used all the time, and if you have ever made or used a holster with them, you'd know that they are not a disadvantage. In fact, Gary Brommeland makes a rig where his rear slot at an angle is a feature of the holster. http://brommelandgun...cts/def-con.htm

As I previously stated, the degree of muzzle rake you have going on in this holster is extreme, but for some folks, is required because they wear the gun back around 5:00. Try drawing from a straight-drop or one with 10 degrees when it's back there - not happening. I also think that the front slot was better where it was, because if you bring it in too far, you're not going to get a bend in the front of the holster for the belt to thread through and the holster won't want to contour against the body. It looks like your revised pattern has the gun low enough to get away with it, but keep in mind, it's not going to work without a gun belt. Just my opinion.

The logic in not slanting the slots? It is a simple physics issue. If the slots are slanted they are longer and are more prone to open up and let the gun/holster rotate outward. If they are 90 degrees to the belt the rig will be held more secure. It is easier to put on a holster with slanted slots, they are longer than the belt is wide so the looseness makes it easier to thread the belt into the slots.

I do realize there is the argument of form over function, they look cooler in pictures when the slots are tipped. You even posted a link to one representing this. I tend to lean to function over form, especially in a possible life and death situation. I do agree, you likely will not die if you lean towards the cool look. The statement I made though was addressed at the stability of the holster.

Yes, I have made holsters. Yes, I do sometimes wear/carry a gun. I don't sell holsters for a living. I do not know Gary and do not ever remember seeing his site before you posted it. I do find it troubleing he would be selling profesionally with a safety issue so visable in his holsters. Nothing against him personally, but this sort of construction is settting himself to be sitting in court as a defendant trying to argue that the loose (unsafe?) slot design was not a factor in something bad happening. That it looks so cool , it must be safe.

Aaron

[electrathon]

Dick,

I just saw the link to your site and looked at the pics you have posted there. I see that you have your slots 90 degrees to the belt in the pics you have posted. I think they look good/safe in their layout. I wanted to comment on this to make sure you did not percieve there to be a statement about safety addressed at the holsters you have made (believe me, if I felt them to be unsafe I would camment).

Aaron

[electrathon]

Back on topic:

This is more how I would recomend. Sorry about the artwork, not my strong point.

[dickf]

Yes, I have made holsters. Yes, I do sometimes wear/carry a gun. I don't sell holsters for a living. I do not know Gary and do not ever remember seeing his site before you posted it. I do find it troubleing he would be selling profesionally with a safety issue so visable in his holsters. Nothing against him personally, but this sort of construction is settting himself to be sitting in court as a defendant trying to argue that the loose (unsafe?) slot design was not a factor in something bad happening. That it looks so cool , it must be safe.

With all due respect, having made some holsters and sometimes wearing a gun isn't enough qualification to criticize a professional holstermaker with any degree of accuracy. I'm sure the gear you make is nice, and I'm sure you put a lot of thought into it's design. Don't you think that someone that sells gunleather for a living does the same thing? Lou Alessi made a few pancakes the same way, with an angled rear slot. So does my buddy, Particle.

I wanted to comment on this to make sure you did not percieve there to be a statement about safety addressed at the holsters you have made (believe me, if I felt them to be unsafe I would camment).

No worries, I don't take any of this personally. I, as you saw, don't care for angled slots.

Back on topic:

This is more how I would recomend. Sorry about the artwork, not my strong point.

By your drawing, which is fine, you would never be able to thread the holster on the belt because of the position of the front and rear loops. The front is right on the stitch line of the slide and wouldn't bend, and the rear is too close to the stitch line at the muzzle and also wouldn't bend.

Abram, I think the best way to evaluate the pattern is to make it, and go from there. We can speculate all we want, and to a degree, will be beneficial, but real-world experience is what will dicate the changes that should be made. Good luck!

[gicts]

I don't understand, could you please elaborate?

I think the others hit on it but if you have a thick enough belt and spread the slots far enough away, it just won't bend.With that said, it looks like in the diagram you have adjusted for this by enlarging the belt slots. I can't see how a larger, diagonal hole would be better than a smaller, perpendicular slot. If you wanted something for retention, try playing with concave shapes.

Edited February 4, 2012 by gicts

[Abram]

Thanks fellas for the insight, it is most appreciated. I like the idea of straight slots as I think they look cleaner. As for the angle of the gun I myself prefer a 15-20 degree cant but then I carry my gun at the 3 o'clock position. I did not realize I had made the slots bigger until gicts pointed it out, thanks. I will tweak the design but first I think I will study some other holster makers to see how they do it and what works for them.

Thanks again

[Shooter McGavin]

Speaking strictly in mathematics:

For a 1.5" belt I use a 1.6" slot, if it is perpendicular to the belt. If I were to rotate that slot 20 degrees, the belt slot now needs to be 1.7" long to compensate for the angle.