Old Dogs And New Tricks

[abn]

Will, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I've noticed lots of folks here who are hesitant to try the Eco Flo products, but I've been using them since 2007 and really like the results. Sometimes even "old schoolers" can find something positive in the new formulations! It never hurts to give them a try...

Regards, -Alex

[katsass]

FWIW from the old grumpy guy; I guess that I'm very much a traditionalist in my work and from the very beginning didn't care much for water based stains. Did use some coffee and tea stains I made myself for coloring the carved and tooled items I did waaay back in the '60s. Primarily for shading on carved Pronghorn Antelope. I don't do that kind of work anymore. With your tutorial I just might be convinced to use this stuff --- but only if I can't get my favorite product --- Fiebing's Pro-Oil.. I learned with it, I know what to expect it to do and I like it. Very good critique Mr. Ghormley, well worth the read. Thank you. Mike

P.S. For my edges I use a tad bit of water, glycerine soap and a final finish of my favorite (being a bit on the che --- uh, frugal side) Mop and Glo mixed 50/50 with water.

Edited March 7, 2012 by katsass

[Go2Tex]

i heard a rumor(maybe just someone trying to push their water based stains and dyes on me) that the EPA is working on banning spirit based dyes. anyone heard any truth to this?

The EPA, eh? I say it's time to get rid of the freakin' EPA! Nothing but a bunch of eco-nazi ideologues. It's totally out of control and unaccountable.

As for the topic of water based dye and rub-off.... If you put a good sealer on any dye it won't rub off.... well, not under normal wear. I guess if you get your butt drug across the pavement trying to make an arrest or something, eh, you might scuff your holster, but I recommend against being drug across the pavement for a lot a reasons, scuffing one's holster being the least of them.

As for the dye being applied to wet leather.... usually, when I have done this, I get a diluted, lighter application. But, the test does indicate a better penetration. Thanks for the demo.

Oh yeah, one more thought..... the holster in question looked a lot better before you dyed it black. I recommend against dying anything black. I think it should be banned along with the EPA.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Go2Tex

[WillGhormley]

You guys are funny! Yeah, the EPA is trying to get rid of anything that works good or makes money. Here in Ioway country, the EPA was trying to outlaw farming because it caused too much dust. You think I'm kiddin' don't you, but that's essentially what their mandates would have done. They also tried to outlaw feed-lots because of "Bovine Flatulence". They say that cow-farts release too much methane and worsen their imaginary global warming. The EPA has already run most tanneries out of the country. Who knows what will be next, saddle makers?

When it comes right down to color penetration, nuthin' beats Fiebing's Professional Oil Dye, nuthin'! However, when it comes to bleedin' of on clothes when wet, nuthin' beats Fiebing's Black Professional Oil Dye. For that reason, I'm goin' to start usin' the Waterstain products on my modern carry gear. And, Go2Tex, I can't agree with you more about how coloration sucks the beauty out of carved leather. But, the customer is always right.

I did another test with the Waterstain using the Waterstain Finish and Cream Conditioner. Those two extra applications really armored-up the abrasion resistance. But, again, like Go2Tex said, try to avoid gettin' drug across cement. You can see the results of the last test at the same webpage.

http://www.willghormley-maker.com/OldDogsAndNewTricks.html

Hope this helps,

Will

[busted]

I wonder if anyone has ever explained to the EPA that cows don't and can't fart we are being lead by a bunch of morons

You guys are funny! Yeah, the EPA is trying to get rid of anything that works good or makes money. Here in Ioway country, the EPA was trying to outlaw farming because it caused too much dust. You think I'm kiddin' don't you, but that's essentially what their mandates would have done. They also tried to outlaw feed-lots because of "Bovine Flatulence". They say that cow-farts release too much methane and worsen their imaginary global warming. The EPA has already run most tanneries out of the country. Who knows what will be next, saddle makers?

When it comes right down to color penetration, nuthin' beats Fiebing's Professional Oil Dye, nuthin'! However, when it comes to bleedin' of on clothes when wet, nuthin' beats Fiebing's Black Professional Oil Dye. For that reason, I'm goin' to start usin' the Waterstain products on my modern carry gear. And, Go2Tex, I can't agree with you more about how coloration sucks the beauty out of carved leather. But, the customer is always right.

I did another test with the Waterstain using the Waterstain Finish and Cream Conditioner. Those two extra applications really armored-up the abrasion resistance. But, again, like Go2Tex said, try to avoid gettin' drug across cement. You can see the results of the last test at the same webpage.

http://www.willghorm...dNewTricks.html

Hope this helps,

Will

[Go2Tex]

Yeah well.... when it comes to black holsters or black anything, (and I know the paying customer is always right), my motto is: If you want it bad, you get it bad... or, black. The nice thing about black is, it hides really crappy stitching.

You might have something with this Eco-flotsam stuff. I just wish they would change the name to something a little less politically correct. I just about refuse to buy anything with the word 'green' or environment in the name or on the label.

[Toolingaround]

Hello

Thanks for the great tests Will. As a newbie I am at the point where I need to decide which kind of dye I am going to invest in. This helps a lot! I only wish the water stain line was a bit more affordable.

Thanks again, Toolingaround

[Iron Pounder]

How about stuff that will get wet at some point? Saddle Bags, fork bag, seats and things like that. It seems like some are trying super hard to get this eco stuff to work almost as good as what we are already using. I wouldn't mind using it as long as it was a better product. Shwos what I know, the little bit I've used eco I always wet the leather down first, I didn't know most put it on dry. This has only been the standard eco not the pro line, maybe the pro line is a lot better I don't know.

[MadMorbius]

I learned two things in this thread...

1) Ecoflow Waterstain is good stuff but needs a damp leather application and multiple coats of conditioner to protect against abraision....

2) Cow's can't fart.

Who knew?

Anyway, I was really hesitant to try anything eco-flo since my previous experience with it was somewhere below craptacular and I found the dye wouldn't penetrate at all....but along came the newer waterstains, I eventually succumbed to peer pressure and I haven't looked back since

[impulse]

Hey Will,

I find it interesting that your tests showed that dampening the leather before applying water-based stain increased penetration.

An old time saddler friend (now deceased) used to stain bridles etc by immersing the leather for 15 mins in warm water into which he had added the stain. The uptake of colour was even and completely absorbed into the leather right through the entire thickness. He would then wipe off the excess moisture and allow to naturally dry to about casing point. Conditioner made up of 50/50 neatsfoot oil and beeswax was rubbed in well and allowed to dry the rest of the way. Vigorous buffing produced a wonderful glow to the finished product. No sealers needed.

This method was used on top-of-the-line English show bridles etc. Stains in powdered form are possibly best and cheapest to use for this method and the remaining mix left over can be bottled up to use for future projects.

He also recommended dunking leather hardened by sweat and mud into warm water before scrubbing with saddle soap or glycerine soap and conditioning as above.

Just make sure the conditioner is applied before the leather dries out completely or it will go quite hard.

BTW do not use artificial heat (hair dryers, convection heaters, ovens) to dry leather, just natural sunlight or not- too-hot central heating in the winter months.

Lois from downunder

Edited April 10, 2012 by impulse