Hand Stitch Threads, Which One?

[J Hayes]

I'm new to this and have used Nyltex white, the wax on it turns real dark and dirty. I like the contrast of the white on dark. What do others use for hand stitching their holsters?

Thanks

Jeremy

[rkleather]

I've been using the white waxed thread from Tandy. It comes in a 25 yard spool. I also wear gloves that have been rubber dipped to save my fingers, also keeps thread pretty clean. I plan on getting a Boss, that should eliminate the thread from becoming dirty.

[katsass]

I'm new to this and have used Nyltex white, the wax on it turns real dark and dirty. I like the contrast of the white on dark. What do others use for hand stitching their holsters?

Thanks

Jeremy

From the grumpy old guy; I hand stitch all of my work. I use dark brown, black, natural and white waxed linen threads for my work. For white I have found that the biggest problem comes from the darker (brown and black) dyed leather when stitching. The first thing to make sure of is that the dye job is dry! Like 24 hours to 48 hours (depending on your climate) dry. Then buff the hell out of the area to be stitched (if not the whole thing). Use a good sharp awl and go to town. A couple of holsters of mine done that way. Mike

[J Hayes]

Katass,

Nice looking work! I really like the inlay one.

Is using wax necessary? I have a new Bianchi that has twisted thread and there appears to be no wax at all.

Jeremy

[katsass]

Katass,

Nice looking work! I really like the inlay one.

Is using wax necessary? I have a new Bianchi that has twisted thread and there appears to be no wax at all.

Jeremy

Well, it's just MHO, but I feel that waxed thread will not abrade as much while stitching (sort of acts as a lubricant),; will resist oils, moisture etc. which can ultimately degrade the stitching (rot it), and, since I was taught to stitch by an old WWI cavalry soldier (back when i was a kid) that said that the Army (back when) wouldn't accept any leather goods NOT hand stitched with waxed linen, I have stayed with it. The Bianchi holster was (most likely) stitched by machine, and waxed thread will gum up most machines --- so they don't use it. Most commercial makers use a synthetic thread like Nyltex. I've used it but went back to waxed linen for my stuff. Mike

[J Hayes]

Well, it's just MHO, but I feel that waxed thread will not abrade as much while stitching (sort of acts as a lubricant),; will resist oils, moisture etc. which can ultimately degrade the stitching (rot it), and, since I was taught to stitch by an old WWI cavalry soldier (back when i was a kid) that said that the Army (back when) wouldn't accept any leather goods NOT hand stitched with waxed linen, I have stayed with it. The Bianchi holster was (most likely) stitched by machine, and waxed thread will gum up most machines --- so they don't use it. Most commercial makers use a synthetic thread like Nyltex. I've used it but went back to waxed linen for my stuff. Mike

What is it about the linen that you like? About the nyltex you dislike? What do you do to clean up the wax after stitching? I'm new to this so the help is much appreciated.

Jeremy

[katsass]

What is it about the linen that you like? About the nyltex you dislike? What do you do to clean up the wax after stitching? I'm new to this so the help is much appreciated.

Jeremy

Well Jeremy, I don't clean it up AFER stitching, I do it prior to. I take a small piece of brown paper bag, (why this seems to work better than other paper I have no idea, but it does) I fold it in half, place the end of my thread into the crease and draw it through between my fingers. I do it twice, rapidly enough to feel a bit of warmth, and 'bingo', no excess wax. As to the nyltex, I just generally stay away from the synthetic theads of all kinds. I have found that under certain stresses, the synthetic threads will cut the leather much more quickly than will the natural linen. I'm just kind of a traditionalist in some ways I guess, but if waxed linen will hold up in holsters (what I generally make) for up to a hundred years or more, (as exeplified in the book "Packing Iron") well, it's good enough for me. Mike

[J Hayes]

Well Jeremy, I don't clean it up AFER stitching, I do it prior to. I take a small piece of brown paper bag, (why this seems to work better than other paper I have no idea, but it does) I fold it in half, place the end of my thread into the crease and draw it through between my fingers. I do it twice, rapidly enough to feel a bit of warmth, and 'bingo', no excess wax. As to the nyltex, I just generally stay away from the synthetic theads of all kinds. I have found that under certain stresses, the synthetic threads will cut the leather much more quickly than will the natural linen. I'm just kind of a traditionalist in some ways I guess, but if waxed linen will hold up in holsters (what I generally make) for up to a hundred years or more, (as exeplified in the book "Packing Iron") well, it's good enough for me. Mike

I bet the paper bag has more absorbency, thanks for the tip, I will try it! I like your outlook on the thread too. Everything else is natural why not use natural thread too. Is there a size to the linen thread you use?

Jeremy

Edited March 20, 2012 by J Hayes

[katsass]

I bet the paper bag has more absorbency, thanks for the tip, I will try it! I like your outlook on the thread too. Everything else is natural why not use natural thread too. Is there a size to the linen thread you use?

Jeremy

I use 4 cord (strands) 5 and 7 cord, depending on what I'm stitching. 7 cord for the welt side of most holsters. Mike

[J Hayes]

I use 4 cord (strands) 5 and 7 cord, depending on what I'm stitching. 7 cord for the welt side of most holsters. Mike

The holsters you did above, 7 cord at 6 stitches per inch?

Jeremy

Edited March 20, 2012 by J Hayes

[katsass]

The holsters you did above, 7 cord at 6 stitches per inch?

Jeremy

You hit it right on the head. I use 6spi for most of my work. Mike

Edited March 21, 2012 by katsass

[Timbo]

The wax also helps lock the stitch together inside the stitch hole.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Timbo

[J Hayes]

Where do you get the waxed linen? I've seen it a few places but no size is given.

I end my stitching by going over 3 stitches and cutting flush on the backside.

Jeremy

[Dwight]

I use a Boss for just about everything I sew, . . . but occasionally I have to hand sew something (got a wallet to do tomorrow :-( )

I do the awl trick first, . . . then use what we called a sail needle in the Navy, . . . a needle, handle, and a small bobbin of thread. I do a lock stitch instead of saddle stitch, . . . and use the 346 thread that is sold by Tandy's.

It has always worked for me, . . . though just every now and again I drop down to the 277 for a special project. Both have a wax like coating on them.

May God bless,

Dwight

[ouchmyfinger]

try a vinagaroon solution instead of black dye if you are having problems with it making your thread dark, make sure to not get it on the inside of the holster because it will cause a corrosion since it is essentially rusty vinegar. also when you remove it you will need to wash it off and a baking soda type bath will help neutralize your leather also.

i use a dremel to drill my holes and i think it works great, you need to have a steady hand and make sure you are going straight down on the leather and through to the other side. its a lot easier on the hands for me but i never really had a GOOD awe either

[katsass]

i use a dremel to drill my holes and i think it works great, you need to have a steady hand and make sure you are going straight down on the leather and through to the other side. its a lot easier on the hands for me but i never really had a GOOD awe either

I've done this, but a caution; Most folks I have seen that use one, use a 1/16" drill bit. That size will often 'show' the holes after stitching. Use a 3/64" bit and a #1 harness needles. You'll need to pull the needle through with a pair of pliers, but in the end, your stitching will look "mo better". Also, with the Dremel, alignment on the back side of your work is essential, the thing will punch through QUICKLY, and misalignment is easy. With an awl, you can work the tip around a bit to ensure proper location of the stitch line much more proficiently. JMHO Mike.

[ouchmyfinger]

That's the same I use also lol. I also go over my stitches with a glass slicker and run the overstitcher after also. I lay my project down on scrap wood to ensure I'm going straight through.

Thanks for the follow up. I didn't know the exact size of the bit at the time but yeah pliers are the only way to get it through lol.

[katsass]

I use a Boss for just about everything I sew, . . . but occasionally I have to hand sew something (got a wallet to do tomorrow :-( )

I do the awl trick first, . . . then use what we called a sail needle in the Navy, . . . a needle, handle, and a small bobbin of thread. I do a lock stitch instead of saddle stitch, . . . and use the 346 thread that is sold by Tandy's.

It has always worked for me, . . . though just every now and again I drop down to the 277 for a special project. Both have a wax like coating on them.

May God bless,

Dwight

Dwight (not to try to steal the thread) but I ended up in the 'brownshoe' Navy, and a 'twidget' to boot, so I never got around a sail needle much while in service. I've tried one a few times but had an awful time getting uniform stitching with it. I learned to saddle stitch long ago so I have stayed with it, as it SEEMS easier to me --- maybe it's just the product of proper instruction and practice for each and/or either method. The sail needle SEEMS as though it would be quicker though, at least on stuff around 5-6oz or so. Mike

Edited March 21, 2012 by katsass

[gringobill]

I use 4 cord (strands) 5 and 7 cord, depending on what I'm stitching. 7 cord for the welt side of most holsters. Mike

Hey Mike, first off, all your holsters really look good( that one with the yellow ostrich leg inlay is killer,) and my hat's off to you for hand stitching everything. It's darn sure a lot more work and time consuming. Having said that it seems like there's a renaissance in hand stitching and I see more and more high end stuff that's "hand stitched," i.e. some of the really fancy stuff in the Traditional Cowboy Artists show. It's a nice touch to say your work is all "hand stitched,) particularly when it looks as good as yours does! So you're on the cutting edge of a trend and probably didn't even know it!!!!!! LOL

I learned the same way you did, in the saddle shop where I learned as a pup, the ONLY way you hand stitched was with waxed linen thread. So when I hand stitch that's what I do. What they used and what I have always used is "dry linen," and I use a block of beeswax to to wax it.

One Big advantage of waxed linen is preparing the ends ( attaching the needles.) with linen you can thin down the ends of the thread with your sharp knife and then roll them to a nice sharp point making it way easier to thread into a small egg eye harness needlle and there is less bulk there when you pull it through the holes. Those ends really stay together way better than any kind of waxed synthetic thread. When I hand sew with waxed synthetic thread of any kind inevitably the needles are wanting to come off pretty quick.

One thing I wanted to ask you is where you get your linen thread and are you buying it in different colors or are you dyeing natural linen? All I have ever used and seen is natural.

Thanks,

Bill

[katsass]

Hey Mike, first off, all your holsters really look good( that one with the yellow ostrich leg inlay is killer,) and my hat's off to you for hand stitching everything. It's darn sure a lot more work and time consuming. Having said that it seems like there's a renaissance in hand stitching and I see more and more high end stuff that's "hand stitched," i.e. some of the really fancy stuff in the Traditional Cowboy Artists show. It's a nice touch to say your work is all "hand stitched,) particularly when it looks as good as yours does! So you're on the cutting edge of a trend and probably didn't even know it!!!!!! LOL

I learned the same way you did, in the saddle shop where I learned as a pup, the ONLY way you hand stitched was with waxed linen thread. So when I hand stitch that's what I do. What they used and what I have always used is "dry linen," and I use a block of beeswax to to wax it.

One Big advantage of waxed linen is preparing the ends ( attaching the needles.) with linen you can thin down the ends of the thread with your sharp knife and then roll them to a nice sharp point making it way easier to thread into a small egg eye harness needlle and there is less bulk there when you pull it through the holes. Those ends really stay together way better than any kind of waxed synthetic thread. When I hand sew with waxed synthetic thread of any kind inevitably the needles are wanting to come off pretty quick.

One thing I wanted to ask you is where you get your linen thread and are you buying it in different colors or are you dyeing natural linen? All I have ever used and seen is natural.

Thanks,

Bill

Bill, to tell you the truth I don't remember where I got the huge spool of natural unwaxed linen thread I have used for a number of years. The thing was enormous! I'm starting to get low on it and am trying to find out where I can replace the thing. For the white, I bought a little spool from Springfield Leather --- but I don't use much white thread. For black and brown I just dunked a wad of the natural linen into a jug of Fiebing's dye and hung it up to dry (watch out, if it slaps you in the face you'll look like you have scars all over the place) --- waxed it good, then when ready to use it, pulled a length through a little piece of brown paper bag to clean of the excess wax. Mike.

[evandailey]

Bill, to tell you the truth I don't remember where I got the huge spool of natural unwaxed linen thread I have used for a number of years. The thing was enormous! I'm starting to get low on it and am trying to find out where I can replace the thing. For the white, I bought a little spool from Springfield Leather --- but I don't use much white thread. For black and brown I just dunked a wad of the natural linen into a jug of Fiebing's dye and hung it up to dry (watch out, if it slaps you in the face you'll look like you have scars all over the place) --- waxed it good, then when ready to use it, pulled a length through a little piece of brown paper bag to clean of the excess wax. Mike.

I finally decided to bite the bullet and buy a spool of the real Barbours Linen from Campbell Bosworth. It was a bit pricey at about $50 but it is a huge spool and will likely last me many years. It is much better thread than any of the other pre-waxed linen small spools I had bought.

[Highlands858]

Related question on how to keep your white thread white: Is it necessary to dye your leather after drilling/making the holes

I've done one project with white thread and didn't like how gray the thread looked after I stitched it, but I always assumed that the dye had darkened the thread, not dirty hands or wax. Most of my thread and projects are black, so I just dye everything again after I've got it stitched. I feel that takes care of any leather that may have been exposed when I drill the holes for stitching. Are you folks who use white thread and a dremel having to dye your work after you drill the holes?

[DaltonMasterson]

All of my sewing is hand sewn with the Barbours/Campbell Bosworth linen thread. I melt my own mix of beeswax and pine pitch, and rub it into the thread for each project. Once in awhile, I will get some dirty looking thread, and have had pretty decent luck cleaning it up by running my overstitch wheel over it a few times.

I prefer the linen thread as the synthetic stuff has always slipped on me some, creating loose stitches later. I have not had that problem with the linen. I presume that the fibers lock to each other some in the linen, whereas the nylon is smooth and slides over itself.

I have used up about half of one of those Barbours rolls of white. I dont do much with any other colors, but the few rolls I have are the small predyed spools.

DM

[J Hayes]

All of my sewing is hand sewn with the Barbours/Campbell Bosworth linen thread. I melt my own mix of beeswax and pine pitch, and rub it into the thread for each project. Once in awhile, I will get some dirty looking thread, and have had pretty decent luck cleaning it up by running my overstitch wheel over it a few times.

I prefer the linen thread as the synthetic stuff has always slipped on me some, creating loose stitches later. I have not had that problem with the linen. I presume that the fibers lock to each other some in the linen, whereas the nylon is smooth and slides over itself.

I have used up about half of one of those Barbours rolls of white. I dont do much with any other colors, but the few rolls I have are the small predyed spools.

DM

How do you make up you pitch/wax mixture? I have seen pitch for use in hooves as an antiseptic, is that sutiable?

Do you use left or right twist on the thread? I imagine the twist would be more important for machine use and really wouldn't matter much for hand sewing, opinions?

Thanks

Jeremy

[DaltonMasterson]

I use a double boiler on my bbq grill outside, and melt about 1/2 pine pitch to 1/2 beeswax together, and pour it into cupcake papers to be used later. I am still using my first batch, but it is a bit soft, so will end up cutting the pitch down some more and going with more beeswax.

It does have the andvantage of making the fingertips sticky when you wax the thread, which makes the needles very easy to grab and pull through the leather.

I am not sure if the hoof type pitch would work or not. What I have I ordered online somewhere a year or two ago. I cant remember where now, but a simple search should find it for you.

As far as the twist, I dont think it matters for hand stitching, but machine work it probably does. I think mine is left hand 5 cord linen.

Good luck, and remember that the wax and pitch is very flammable and to be careful.

EDIT::: Here is a link to Chuck Burrows stitching tutorial with his recipe and method for making your own wax. See #8.. http://www.wrtcleath...therstitch.html

DM

Edited April 2, 2012 by DaltonMasterson