Turning A Bag

[Eve]

Hello everyone!

I'm very new to leatherworking, recently I have made a bag which I have a problem with (please see the attached photo), I attached both side pieces from inside the bag, and turn it out when I done, but the bag look very beaten up, I did wet the leather to make it smoother before turning.

Can someone please help me? I really need suggestion and recommendation.

Cheers!

(photo link)

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=359596297412627&set=a.359595717412685.83376.100000867801310&type=3&theater

[Cyberthrasher]

I'm having troubles understanding what the problem is. Is it just that the leather looks loosened up there on the right side of that picture? All in all I think it looks great. Could you post some close ups of the problem areas here?

[Leather Girl]

Eve,

Are you sewing the bag by hand? Sewing by hand has it's issues but I don't see much wrong with it either. The closeups would be better.

Randi-Lee

[Eve]

I'm having troubles understanding what the problem is. Is it just that the leather looks loosened up there on the right side of that picture? All in all I think it looks great. Could you post some close ups of the problem areas here?

Hi Cyberthrasher

My problem is after I turned the bag out, the leather no longer as smooth or flat as when it was, it all wrinkle up, looks like the bag being used for some time, and this problem is not only on one side, it is the whole bag that looks like being beaten up.

Eve,

Are you sewing the bag by hand? Sewing by hand has it's issues but I don't see much wrong with it either. The closeups would be better.

Randi-Lee

Hi Randi-Lee

Yes I sew this bag by hand, and I already gave the bag to my mother in law, can't take anymore photo of this bag sorry =( My question is how to make the bag looks still brand new after I turn it instead of all wrinkle up like a wave.

[Leather Girl]

Eve,

Something tells me you were pulling the thread too tight and it will start to bunch up the sides. You have to sew a bit and smooth it out and sew some more. The corners are difficult and you have to be careful with them. When sewing a corner, like sewing in a sleeve of a shirt you have to be careful stretch it around corner. Best to start sewing at the top from one corner one side and do that and if it comes up a bit higher at the other corner you can trim it. This is hard to explain without showing it.

Sewing a bag by hand is a royal pain in the butt. Now, I sew them on my machine and avoid that stuff.

Your bag looks beautiful and I wish you all the best if you continue sewing them by hand.

Randi-Lee

[Eve]

Eve,

Something tells me you were pulling the thread too tight and it will start to bunch up the sides. You have to sew a bit and smooth it out and sew some more. The corners are difficult and you have to be careful with them. When sewing a corner, like sewing in a sleeve of a shirt you have to be careful stretch it around corner. Best to start sewing at the top from one corner one side and do that and if it comes up a bit higher at the other corner you can trim it. This is hard to explain without showing it.

Sewing a bag by hand is a royal pain in the butt. Now, I sew them on my machine and avoid that stuff.

Your bag looks beautiful and I wish you all the best if you continue sewing them by hand.

Randi-Lee

Thank you Randi-Lee

Actually when I completed the sewing part, everything looks fine, and the leather was too thick for me to pull the thread too hard or tight (my hand fill with needle holes and water bubbles when I done that part).

The wrinkle problem comes after I turn the bag out, it took me ages to turn it because the leather was very hard even I did wet it to make it softer and I still have to force it to turn, when it finally out, the leather no longer smooth as brand new >.<! it looks like a bag being used for a while, when I hand it to my mother in law I felt so embarrassing like I gave her a used bag.

Most likely I will be keep using hand sewing, not enough space at home, I’m actually using my dining table for my leatherwork LOL sooner or later I think I’ll crack the glasses on the top.

Cheers!

[Leather Girl]

Thank you Randi-Lee

Actually when I completed the sewing part, everything looks fine, and the leather was too thick for me to pull the thread too hard or tight (my hand fill with needle holes and water bubbles when I done that part).

The wrinkle problem comes after I turn the bag out, it took me ages to turn it because the leather was very hard even I did wet it to make it softer and I still have to force it to turn, when it finally out, the leather no longer smooth as brand new >.<! it looks like a bag being used for a while, when I hand it to my mother in law I felt so embarrassing like I gave her a used bag.

Most likely I will be keep using hand sewing, not enough space at home, I'm actually using my dining table for my leatherwork LOL sooner or later I think I'll crack the glasses on the top.

Eve,

Did you punch holes in the bag first? If you have like the 4 thong hole maker then it may take some of the stress off. These don't make huge holes. Put something over the glass on your table a soft cloth or whatever. You may also not want to do an in and out stitch but a whip stitch may be a bigger help. Do some mini bags in different stitches and see which one turns out best, when you turn the bag.

Randi-Lee

Cheers!

[Spinner]

I can't view the pic on Facebook but from the posts I'm guessing you made a bag out of veg-tan leather using traditional fabric sewing techniques? If so, that is the problem. If you do a search here on the forum for bags you'll notice that pretty much 100% of the bags made from veg-tan leather are sewn with the stitches on the outside with an inward curving gusset. The reason is that veg-tan is known for taking marks (tooling) easily, especially when wet, and by sewing inside out and turning the bag it causes the wrinkles and folds you see. Due to the properties of veg-tan, they are now part of the bag's story.

For bags that can be made high fashion style bags, you'll want to use chrome tan or oil tan leathers as they tend to be lighter weight and resist wrinkles better and should a wrinkle form, it can be ironed/stretched out for the most part.

[Cyberthrasher]

I can't view the pic on Facebook but from the posts I'm guessing you made a bag out of veg-tan leather using traditional fabric sewing techniques?

Here's a picture of the bag for anybody who can't see it on Facebook. I hope you don't mind Eve.

[Northmount]

Some of the leather probably stretched while wet and pulling it around to turn inside out. Then it can't shrink back to flat anymore. Also dry slowly or stretched over a form to reduce distortion from drying. You may be able to smooth some of it by burnishing by hand or with a glass plate burnisher while drying, possibly several times as it dries slowly. I'm fairly sure most of the problem was it was stretched while wet. Minimize how wet you get the leather. The wetter it is, the more shrinkage you will see as it dries.

CTG

[CowboyDan]

Some of the leather probably stretched while wet and pulling it around to turn inside out. Then it can't shrink back to flat anymore. Also dry slowly or stretched over a form to reduce distortion from drying. You may be able to smooth some of it by burnishing by hand or with a glass plate burnisher while drying, possibly several times as it dries slowly. I'm fairly sure most of the problem was it was stretched while wet. Minimize how wet you get the leather. The wetter it is, the more shrinkage you will see as it dries.

CTG

I don't know if you necessarily want to minimize how wet the leather is when turning it.

When I did a purse for my sister, I did all the cut-outs on the bench with the pieces flat, then stitched it inside-out. Then SOAKED it until it absolutely wouldn't take any more water. Then I took it out of the bucket and started turning it. Now the one I made had a lot of very intricate cuts that made for some extremely fragile 'threads' of leather, so I was being extraordinarily cautious as I turned it.

I think I found a round container of some sort and slid the (now turned right-side out) purse over it to dry. It wasn't a very tight fit, but I made sure it was sitting smoothly as it dried. I thought it turned out pretty well.

You can see the (now very worn) purse here; http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=39160

[Eve]

Thanks everyone for the great recommendation and information, I wouldn't find them on my books!

Next time I will try chrome tan or oil tan leathers instead of veg-tan leather, and I will soak it in the water until it wouldn't take in anymore before I turn it.

I have two more question - is there any book teach how to do sewn with the stitches on the outside with an inward curving gusset? Is this method for hand sew or machine?

Cheers all!

[Northmount]

1334982500[/url]' post='244581']

Thanks everyone for the great recommendation and information, I wouldn't find them on my books!

Next time I will try chrome tan or oil tan leathers instead of veg-tan leather, and I will soak it in the water until it wouldn't take in anymore before I turn it.

I have two more question - is there any book teach how to do sewn with the stitches on the outside with an inward curving gusset? Is this method for hand sew or machine?

Cheers all!

Just be aware that the wetter the leather is, the easier it is to stretch.

[Kustom]

Hi Eve,

This a good book to learn about gussets.

http://www.leathercourses.co.uk/the-leatherworking-handbook/

As well as the three Al Stohlman case making books.

Good luck,

Steve

Thanks everyone for the great recommendation and information, I wouldn't find them on my books!

Next time I will try chrome tan or oil tan leathers instead of veg-tan leather, and I will soak it in the water until it wouldn't take in anymore before I turn it.

I have two more question - is there any book teach how to do sewn with the stitches on the outside with an inward curving gusset? Is this method for hand sew or machine?

Cheers all!

[Andrew Chee]

Thanks everyone for the great recommendation and information, I wouldn't find them on my books!

Next time I will try chrome tan or oil tan leathers instead of veg-tan leather, and I will soak it in the water until it wouldn't take in anymore before I turn it.

I have two more question - is there any book teach how to do sewn with the stitches on the outside with an inward curving gusset? Is this method for hand sew or machine?

Cheers all!

You can still use Veg Tan leather. Generally speaking, if you use a thinner leather, it will be easier to turn. 4oz leather is pretty much as thick as you need for a purse. Maybe even thinner. I have some veg tan leather that are softer tempered (definitely not as soft as chrome tan) but they turn pretty easily without having to wet them.

Andrew

[Leatherimages]

I don't notice a welt. I think it would give the purse a line to fold at. And you can bone it to improve the fold even after turning.

The 4 oz. suggetion above is good, and chrome is certainly softer.

However if you wish to make a heavier veg tanned bag, you could go up to maybe 6-7oz., if you gouge a stitch line and use a welt.

And I'll affirm that drying over a form will always improve the look of a turned item. Also using a glass, or any kind of smooth "burnisher, will also help in shaping. I've got a cocobolo "paddle" that works wonders for shaping and moving leather around.

I think it's useful to mention that you don't have to be controled by the leather, Work with leathers that fit the bill for use, but also that you can in construction.

For example, It looks to me like this center section leather has a "patent" finish on it. Using it at the seam might have been part of the problem. I think there could be a difference in the flexiblity of the two different leathers at the seam as the veg side sections, the one not being as pliable as the other. Is that Calf?

FYI everyone, if you want to use a soft toolable leather for handbags (or other) try Wickett and Craigs Carving Leather, split 5-6 ounce (or your choice), milled. Milling bends all the straight fibers while tumbling in a large vat. When you open the box and lay your hand under the side of 'milled veg', it will feel as drapy as chap leather. And the texture of the belly and shoulder will excite you.

Good luck and remember, 'it ain't brain surgery, but a brain surgeon could do it'. You can, you've got the tools!

[Andrew Chee]

I don't notice a welt. I think it would give the purse a line to fold at. And you can bone it to improve the fold even after turning.

The 4 oz. suggetion above is good, and chrome is certainly softer.

However if you wish to make a heavier veg tanned bag, you could go up to maybe 6-7oz., if you gouge a stitch line and use a welt.

And I'll affirm that drying over a form will always improve the look of a turned item. Also using a glass, or any kind of smooth "burnisher, will also help in shaping. I've got a cocobolo "paddle" that works wonders for shaping and moving leather around.

I think it's useful to mention that you don't have to be controled by the leather, Work with leathers that fit the bill for use, but also that you can in construction.

For example, It looks to me like this center section leather has a "patent" finish on it. Using it at the seam might have been part of the problem. I think there could be a difference in the flexiblity of the two different leathers at the seam as the veg side sections, the one not being as pliable as the other. Is that Calf?

FYI everyone, if you want to use a soft toolable leather for handbags (or other) try Wickett and Craigs Carving Leather, split 5-6 ounce (or your choice), milled. Milling bends all the straight fibers while tumbling in a large vat. When you open the box and lay your hand under the side of 'milled veg', it will feel as drapy as chap leather. And the texture of the belly and shoulder will excite you.

Good luck and remember, 'it ain't brain surgery, but a brain surgeon could do it'. You can, you've got the tools!

Hm... I bought a side of W&C skirting leather split to 4oz and staked. I wanted it softer but I didn't want the grain pattern disturbed which heavy milling can do. I didn't know that W&C also milled the leather. Does the milling process change the look of the leather? I've seen some milled veg tan that was as soft as chrome tan leather but the milling gives the leather a very pebbly looking surface which I didn't like.

Andrew

[Leatherimages]

Andrew,

They do, and it does. That's the thing.

But you can still mount it on illurtration board for tooling, and get a nice effect.

However I'm curious about the staking. You imply it makes it softer?

Personally, I like the texture, and so have my customers.

Below is a project using the textured areas.

[Kustom]

Hi Andrew,

This is a sample piece of 4-5 oz milled bridle that Matt from W&C sent me. I don't consider it "pebbled".

Steve

[CowboyDan]

Well, it appears I have to eat a few of my words.

I just stumbled across my construction photos of the purse I made, and discovered how I supported the bag purse while it dried....

As you can see from the picture, my memory is what I forget with. The picture tells the truth.

My most sincere apologies to any who have been mislead by my faulty memory.

Now where did I put my glasses.........

[Andrew Chee]

Hi Andrew,

This is a sample piece of 4-5 oz milled bridle that Matt from W&C sent me. I don't consider it "pebbled".

Steve

Yeah, that was what I was expecting from a milled leather. I guess my usage of the term "pebbled" may be incorrect. I was trying to describe the grain structure just like what you have in the picture. Milling will soften the leather but it will also "wrinkle" (maybe that's a better term?) the grain. So if you want the regular smooth grain of a veg tan leather then milling won't work. If you like that look then that's great. Staking is a different process that they do that softens the leather some without changing the look of the grain. Just by looking at it you would think that it's regular veg tan. It's softer than regular veg tan but not terribly soft and It's probably not as soft as the dry milled leather so I guess that's the tradeoff.

Andrew

[Kustom]

Andrew,

Do you know how they go about staking a hide?

Steve

Yeah, that was what I was expecting from a milled leather. I guess my usage of the term "pebbled" may be incorrect. I was trying to describe the grain structure just like what you have in the picture. Milling will soften the leather but it will also "wrinkle" (maybe that's a better term?) the grain. So if you want the regular smooth grain of a veg tan leather then milling won't work. If you like that look then that's great. Staking is a different process that they do that softens the leather some without changing the look of the grain. Just by looking at it you would think that it's regular veg tan. It's softer than regular veg tan but not terribly soft and It's probably not as soft as the dry milled leather so I guess that's the tradeoff.

Andrew

[Andrew Chee]

As far as I know, the put it through a staking machine. I saw a dirty jobs video clip on that where they went to a leather factory and used a staking machine. What it actually does inside I don't really know.

Andrew

[reddevil76]

Hello everyone!

I'm very new to leatherworking, recently I have made a bag which I have a problem with (please see the attached photo), I attached both side pieces from inside the bag, and turn it out when I done, but the bag look very beaten up, I did wet the leather to make it smoother before turning.

Can someone please help me? I really need suggestion and recommendation.

Cheers!

(photo link)

https://www.facebook...&type=3

Hi Eve, looking at your facebook pics, it appears that you are leaning towards designer bag looks. In that case, you might wanna avoid veg tan leathers. Once they "age", they will appear "dirty" to ladies who are used to fashion leather bags.

Chris is right, chrome tan leathers might suit your needs better.

However, some Japanese companies did succeed in making fashionable items while drumming in the beauty of aging leather. See this link for some inspiration (they hand sew portions of the bags, though not entirely)

If you are inspired after this video, and would like to continue experimenting with veg tan leather, I would suggest 2-3 oz goat veg tan. It is soft enough to manipulate, and yet has enough body to look good when made into a bag.

Regards,

Dylan

[Eve]

Hi Eve, looking at your facebook pics, it appears that you are leaning towards designer bag looks. In that case, you might wanna avoid veg tan leathers. Once they "age", they will appear "dirty" to ladies who are used to fashion leather bags.

Chris is right, chrome tan leathers might suit your needs better.

However, some Japanese companies did succeed in making fashionable items while drumming in the beauty of aging leather. See this link for some inspiration (they hand sew portions of the bags, though not entirely)

If you are inspired after this video, and would like to continue experimenting with veg tan leather, I would suggest 2-3 oz goat veg tan. It is soft enough to manipulate, and yet has enough body to look good when made into a bag.

Regards,

Dylan

Hello Dylan

Thank you for your great tip, I watched the video, and that just what I been looking for! ^_^

About the chrome tan and veg tan leather, I brought all my leather from Hong Kong, they sale as – what you see is what you get, unless I know what is chrome tan or veg tan, otherwise, they can't help >.<!

veg tan leather

no idea what tan is this >.<

Also I brought a few diamond stitching chisel (4mm & 3mm) from HK (made in Japan), the problem is the hole is too big for thinner leather like sheep or goat hide, is there any chisel that will make smaller hole.

Thanks!

Eve

Edited July 16, 2012 by Eve