Saddle Fitting For The Young Horse

[Teddyi]

Hello All,

I'm new here, and am hoping you can give me some help with deciding on a new saddle. I'm looking to buy a new saddle for a young horse I'm planning to start this summer/fall. Because he's only two years old, I'm only going to introduce him to the saddle and maybe put a half dozen rides on him. After that he'll go back to pasture until next spring when I'll put a few more rides on him. He'll start real work when he's four.

I need to buy a saddle for this colt, but am thinking that it may be better to wait until next year when he's three to have a better chance of fitting him properly. I have a saddle I can use to start him this year, but it may not fit him well. For that reason, I'd prefer to buy a saddle for him now so I know it will fit him and not cause any problems. The caveat is that I'm not sure its wise to try to fit him now since he'll change quite a bit over the next few years.

I've been looking at the McCall Lady Wade saddles and have no idea what will fit him. I also thought about having a Double H strip down made because I like the weight (only about 15lbs. give or take) and the freedom of movement in the fenders. Although that will take 5-6 months.

To give you an idea of my horse, he's an Andalusian. Both his parents are 16.2H so we estimate he will finish somewhere around there. He has an extremely upright neck with big shoulders, a very short back and semi-muttony withers. Since he's two, he's got a lot of growing to do.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks so much.

[kseidel]

Teddyi,

My sympathies for your situation. Young horses can be difficult to fit. In addition to the prominent shoulders and under developed withers, they also have a straighter back. Saddles for mature horses tend to pinch over the wither area, slip side to side, and stick up in back. However, making a saddle to fit this horse now is not practical, as it will only fit for a very short time and then need to be replaced. Professional trainers riding young colts constantly would benefit from having saddles made to fit that type of back, but not many others.

You can, however, make a mature horse saddle fit within tolerance by adjusting padding. Specialty pads are readily available, and are not nearly as expensive as saddles.

For your Andalusian, make sure your saddle is wide enough at the top of the bars to allow enough room for the horse and steep enough to make contact at the bottom of the bars without pinching at the top. You can use a panel pad to relieve rock and create extra room in the wither area.

Good luck

Keith

[Teddyi]

Hi Keith,

Thanks so much for the information. In the past I've always started colts in one of three dressage saddles I have, but have been looking to start this one in a Wade type saddle. I find fitting dressage saddles far easier than fitting western saddles (probably due to my inexperience with western saddles). It seems as if everything on a western saddle is hidden under layers of sheepskin and leather - and I have a hard time figuring out exactly what's where. In contrast, dressage saddles seem to be very obvious if they fit or not and there is so much less "stuff" to get through.

I'm thinking of buying a McCall Lady Wade saddle for this horse. McCall uses Timberline trees and I'm thinking their QHB tree would fit him when he's three and four...possibly even when he's full grown - and may work out now with the correct padding. Given this general information, do you think I could get by with buying a McCall Lady Wade with QHB and using a 1/2" or 3/4" Five Star wool pad? Or, even getting a specialty pad? I've spoken with three McCall reps; one told me I would only need the QHB tree (not the FQHB tree), one told me I could use the QHB tree or the FQHB tree and the other had no idea. My concern with the FQHB tree is that it will be too wide and sit too low on his withers.

It seems as if this colt changes shape from one day to the next right now, and he is currently butt high which makes him appear to have a dip in his back. He also has big shoulders and an incredibly short back.. Fitting him right now will be a challenge for sure.

Thanks so much for your help! Its much appreciated.

Teddy

[Aggiebraider]

Im no expert like Mr Seidel, but I wouldnt ride anything in just an 1/2 or 3/4" pad. A 1" pad is ok by itself, but if I were going to use anything smaller I would use a single or double navajo pad along with it. Not really part of your question, but I thought I would add that to keep in mind since you said something about it

CW

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Keith's advice is rock solid. I won't even make a saddle for a horse that is that age. There is too much change. As for the breed, your type of horse has a much more prominent set of whithers once he is fully mature than most Quarter horses. Once again, Keith's advice is rock solid. The specialty pads under a plain middle of the road western saddle will get you by till he has grown. Once he has grown closer to his finished out size, you can spend the dollars to get a really well made saddle that you will be able to use from there on out, and your horse will appreciate the difference.

Bob

[Teddyi]

Thanks for the advice CW and Bob. I think I'll try to get a used Lady Wade McCall for now and pad it up. I have a 1/2" Five Star wool pad, and will look into either a 3/4" or 1" Five Star pad OR a specialty pad to use for now.

CW - the Five Star pads are all wool and very dense. From my understanding of the Five Star pads, as long as my saddle fits properly, I'll only need a 1/2" pad. Their rep told me because of my weight (about 115 lbs give or take) and the fact that I'm not roping anything bigger than calves, I should stick with a 1/2" pad. She said if I plan on roping bulls or large steers, then I might want to use something thicker. Although this is a special situation, and to fit this colt right now I'd try a 3/4" to 1" pad unless it makes the saddle slip around too much. Thinking of looking into a specialty pad as well.

Bob - I plan on getting a really nice saddle made for this colt someday, but definitely not this year. Andalusians mature very slowly, so he'll likely not be done growing until he's 7 or 8. Will look into a really well made saddle when he's 4 or so.

Keith and Bob - I realize it's hard to tell at this point, but can you give me your opinion on whether or not it's reasonable to assume that a FQHB Timberline tree on a McCall Lady Wade saddle will be too wide for my colt right now? I understand that he's going to change a lot, and that you'd only be providing an educated guess, but your educated guess is probably a lot better than mine. I'm just looking for advice to help me buy a saddle that could work for now. I'm thinking I'll try a QHB McCall Lady Wade and pad it up for this colt. Anything wrong with my trying this route? The saddle shop in town does have a McCall Lady Wade with QHB that I can try on my colt to see if it will work for the time being.

Thanks so much everyone for your help!!

Teddy

[kseidel]

Teddy,

I do not have a lot of experience fitting Andalusians. Typical problems with McCalls are too much rock in the bars for young horses. This can be fixed with a panel pad and removing the center panels. (panel pads are from Diamond Wool)The Timberline tree is a good tree and their FQH is wider at the bottom in relation to their QH bar. Gullet width is important, but can also be turned with padding. Most western saddles are built to fit properly with proper padding relative to the size of horse under the saddle. Generally speaking, larger horse = less padding, smaller horse= more padding. You need to pad to fill the space in the gullet between the horse and the saddle... side to side, not top. The angle of the front bar pad is one of the more critical areas of fit. You do not want too wide at the bottom! Typically most young horses are steeper in the whither area and need a regular QG bar, or even a semi QH bar. A full QH bar is usually too wide for immature backs. It looks like you are in Jackson Hole WY, and are not that far from where I am in Cody. I would certainly be able to assist you in fitting if you want. I know John from Flat Creek Saddlery well, but do not know his level of expertise regarding fitting. You are right in that western saddles are much harder to asses the fit than english. Also, the woolskin offers a great deal of soft padding, and true fit is not readily visible until wool is compressed, further complicating the matter.

Keith

[Billy H]

Hi Teddyi, Wow what a Opportunity!!!! Have one of the best makers in the world help fit your horse.I would take that offer in a heart beat.

Keith, I read that you made a Mother Hubbard saddle, sure would love to see a picture or two. Billy

Edited May 7, 2012 by Billy H

[Teddyi]

Keith,

Thank you so much for answering my questions and for your kind offer to help fit my horse. I'd love to have your expert advice on fitting this colt! I'm about a 3-1/2 hour drive from you - through the Park - tourist traffic and moose/elk/bear jams excepted. Maybe we can figure out a convenient time/date for me to trailer him up to you and you can tell me what you think. Or, if you're planning to be in my area at some point in the near future, maybe we can meet and you can take a look at my colt? Although I think it may be the best use of your time to do this next year when he's three?

As for fitting Andalusians, they differ vastly in body type anymore (similar to Quarter Horses now). They used to be fairly predictable in conformation, but with the popularity of the breed in the US, the breed type has undergone quite a bit of change. Now you can find Andalusians ranging in size and shape from pony-like to draft-like. If it helps at all, I've attached a picture of my colt's sire. His sire is incredibly prepotent, and his breeder feels my colt will turn out very similar to his sire in body type and proportion. For reference, his sire is 16.2H. His dam is also 16.2H and I only have video of her - no still pictures. She is slightly longer in the back than the sire, and has slightly more muttony withers with a slightly broader back.

John at Flat Creek has a new McCall Lady Wade with QHB that he said I could try on my colt. I actually would have purchased that saddle last year (for another horse) except for the fact that it's a 14" finished seat, and although it fit me fine, I was concerned that I might want another 1/2" or so of room. I've been told that for big moving horses, a slightly larger seat is a good thing. I don't know if that's true or not, but I imagine 1/2" bigger isn't going to hinder me, whereas a 1/2" too small would. I'd be interested to know if you agree with the 1/2" bigger seat for big moving horses theory.

Thank you for describing what I need to look for with respect to the McCall saddle in particular. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the Timberline bars have too much rock in the bars - in layman's terms this means curve (i.e. like the rockers on a rocking chair?). And angle of the front bar pad not being too wide at the bottom - do you mean angle as in flatter or steeper as it relates to the horse's back? Sorry, complete layman here.

I've taken a look at the Diamond Wool panel pads and they look interesting. I'll see if John has any in stock.

I do have two other options; borrow a friend's Crates saddle (I believe its the Light Versatility saddle with a rawhide "TMBR" tree) or Frecker's has a 15" finished seat Buck Brannaman Lite saddle for sale. I've emailed Frecker's for the full specs on the saddle, but I'm thinking I'd hate to start a colt in a $4,500 saddle that also may not fit him when he's four.

Thank you so much for your patience and help!! Its very much appreciated.

Teddy

Billy,

Yes...Keith is extremely nice to give me so much of his time answering my questions. I'm very grateful for his help. Will also jump at the chance to have him help me with saddle fit for this colt.

Teddy

[kseidel]

Teddy,

Nice looking sire of your colt! If he turns out anything like that you will have a great horse! I fit a lot of big ranch horses that are similar in size and the overall conformation is similar to some big morgans that we see in this country. As an adult, he will not be difficult to fit. My concerns are fitting him now and over the next 4 years without creating resistance in training due to poor saddle fit. This year is probably not as critical as you will not be riding him very hard or long, and under controlled environments. The borrowed Crates with some attention to padding may be acceptable.

Your questions regarding angles and rock.... Those are hard concepts to describe in words without pictures and hand gestures! Yes, rock refers to the curve in the bars from front to back like the rockers on a rocking chair. Gullet angle is the angle from side to side. It relates to the slope of the horses side of shoulder from center straight out (perpendicular) from the spine. Mutton whithered horses are flatter, and thoroughbreds are steeper. Hope that is clear.

Of the saddles you mentioned, the Frecker is far superior. I am sympathetic to the entry saddle for $4500. Especially with the possibility of not fitting later. You would most likely get a couple of years out of it anyway. The Lady Wade at 14" is pretty small, even for a small frame lady. There is a fairly good resale market for used saddles, but you take a pretty big hit from the new price. Best if you can find one used that will suit you to optimize economics. I have a slightly used wade in the store that may work for you. It is made by Chuck Treon of Weatherford, TX. It is a Hamley Wade style tree and the tree was made by Warren Wright of New Zealand. It is a 15 1/2" seat, round skirt, 3/4 flat plate double rigging, all smooth finish. Weighs 32#. price $3500. You would have to abuse it pretty hard to drop the value much below that. I'll post a pic if you are interested. I think it will probably fit your horse adequately for the next 3 or 4 years, after that, who knows. This tree has a 6 1/4" front and 4" back gullet width and 12 3/4" bottom bar flare. What that means is that it is pretty standard quarter horse angles and size. Bar pads are pretty flat which allow for heavier muscle under the bar. Just another option. You may not like it at all.

I am always looking for an ex to go to Jackson for a fishing trip! Do not have plans for any visits before June 1. It would be easier to go thru thru the fitting process here at my shop, but I can bring the stuff to Jackson also. ( I have trees and minimal skirts so you can see the fit)

Billy, I'll try to post some pics of that Mother Hubbard saddle. I should have posted them sooner.... time,you know.

Keith