Saddle Fitting For The Young Horse

[Teddyi]

Keith,

Thanks so much for more great information. And thanks for the nice comment on my colt's sire. He's a really nice stallion - very athletic and very nice type. I like them big, but not if they lose type or can't get out of their own way. They're supposed to be able to fight bulls after all. With luck, my colt will turn out as nice as his sire. I purposely chose him because he's so agile and athletic. So far, he isn't disappointing me. Although he did jump out of his pasture last summer. My pasture fence for him is 5' tall so I guess "athletic" can be a blessing and a curse.

And what you said about fitting him to avoid creating resistance in training due to poor saddle fit is EXACTLY what I am concerned about. You hit the nail on the head!! I'm tempted to buy the Frecker's Brannaman Lite Wade since they rarely have them ready made for sale. I just happened to look on their website today and saw it. I asked Kent and he said it's QH bars, 15" seat. I suppose I could justify it by telling myself that resale is excellent on those saddles.... Here's the description: This finished Buck Brannaman Lite saddle weighs approximately 30-33 lbs. We have taken the regular Buck Brannaman tree and put a slightly smaller horn (4½" finished), used lighter weight leather, narrower stirrup leathers, narrower fenders, trimmed the skirts and jockeys down, and 4" stainless steel stirrups without heel blocks. Still using top quality materials, tree, leather, and hardware, this makes a great all around saddle. Available in 14-16½" seat size; your inseam length; and quarterhorse or thoroughbred gullet widths. And I'll post a picture so you know what it looks like.

Do you think this would be a suitable saddle for my colt. (Well, aside from the possibility of it not fitting him when he's mature and the possible damage he could do to it when I'm starting him.)

For this year I'll try the borrowed Crates and look at padding it correctly. I'm borrowing it from a friend who uses it on a TB mare with some withers, but big shoulders. She said it's not a narrow saddle. I'll find out the specifics when I see her this week. It may be okay for now due to my colt's immature frame.

And I researched angle and rock and think I understand now. Thank you for the description and explanation! It made things much more clear to me.

The saddle you described sounds interesting. Thanks for posting the photo. Something for me to consider as well.

As for seat size, I suppose it must be a personal preference thing because I've been told I would take a 14" seat in a wade saddle. There are also a few gals I know who ride in a 14" wade and they're even slightly bigger than I am. Again, this is where dressage saddles are so much easier to fit. I ride in a 16-1/2" dressage saddle and know what fits and doesn't the minute I sit in it. With the wade saddles, I'm lost. Do you think a 14-1/2" wade would be better - or even a 15" wade? I know some of it is personal preference too, but this completely confuses me.

I am happy to wait until after June if you think you may be in my area this summer!! That way you can write off your fishing trip as a business trip!

Many, many thanks for your help with this.

Teddy

Edited May 7, 2012 by Teddyi

[AdamTill]

You're in great hands with Keith, obviously, but I just thought I'd caution you that you may need more rock and shoulder flare then is commonly available in most Wade trees on the commercial market. I have a friend who brought a very nice Andy over from Spain a few years ago:

...and her horse fit saddles that fit my Icelandic quite well. Those were made extremely wide (Andy Knight said I would never have found something off the shelf to fit my Icelandic). She was riding in a treeless for a long time until she found a saddle that fit (a dressage saddle, eventually).

Like you said though, lots of variation in the breed.

Good luck!

Adam

[Teddyi]

Hi Adam,

Thank you for your reply - and for posting the video of your friend's horse. He's lovely! And lucky her...she got to go to Spain to buy him!!

As for fitting Andalusians, I agree that their conformation presents some unique challenges. Combine that with my colt's age and immature structure ~ and the fact that I know nothing about fitting a western saddle, and it's a daunting task. It would be so much easier to fit him to one of my dressage saddles, but I'm really keen to start him in a Wade saddle. Mostly because I'll be taking him to sort and gather in the near future. But I have to admit that I'm also fascinated with the Vaquero style of riding.

Thankfully, I found this forum and have gotten some incredible advice from the experts here.

Thanks again for your reply!

Teddy

[kseidel]

Do you think this would be a suitable saddle for my colt. (Well, aside from the possibility of it not fitting him when he's mature and the possible damage he could do to it when I'm starting him.)

For this year I'll try the borrowed Crates and look at padding it correctly. I'm borrowing it from a friend who uses it on a TB mare with some withers, but big shoulders. She said it's not a narrow saddle. I'll find out the specifics when I see her this week. It may be okay for now due to my colt's immature frame.

I do like Kent Frecker's trees. This saddle may work fine for your horse. I would want to know the gullet measurements before committing. The most common areas of saddlefit that cause problems in training are pinching whithers in the upper gullet range (which causes them to buck with their head down) and excessive rock putting too much pressure in the middle of the back (causing the horse to hollow his back and resist collection).

As for seat size, I suppose it must be a personal preference thing because I've been told I would take a 14" seat in a wade saddle. There are also a few gals I know who ride in a 14" wade and they're even slightly bigger than I am. Again, this is where dressage saddles are so much easier to fit. I ride in a 16-1/2" dressage saddle and know what fits and doesn't the minute I sit in it. With the wade saddles, I'm lost. Do you think a 14-1/2" wade would be better - or even a 15" wade? I know some of it is personal preference too, but this completely confuses me.

Seat size is relative to many factors in western saddles. The amount of leg room is more important than actual distance from horn to cantle. This is affected by swell shape and angle; cantle height, width, and angle; and how the maker shapes the seat. None of these factors are present in an english saddle. Fitting for ladies can be controversial since we are talking about the woman's shape! Some ladies have smaller hips, seat, and thighs; most have larger. With a wade tree you do not have swells to interfere with your legs, but you still have to decide how close you want to be to your horn. Personal preference is the final factor determining your choice.

I am sure I will be coming to Jackson sometime this summer. Will have to wait till runoff is done, but can come for fishing trip then. PM me your phone # and I will call you when I am coming your way.

Keith

[Teddyi]

Keith,

Thank you for the information, and for answering my questions. I sent you a PM also.

I just talked to Kent and he just sold that saddle. It was on the website for maybe four days. Amazing! He said he has another one that is also a Brannaman Lite. 15" seat, QH bars, 4" x 90 degrees. Kent seemed to think that would fit an Andalusian well. He said that's the configuration Buck Brannaman uses, and he tends to be able to use it on a wide variety of horses. Might be that we're talking about a wide variety of QH's, but he thought it would work for me. Or, I can get on next year's list for a custom saddle. Will take 6 months to get it made. That would be great except that my riding season is May/June to Oct/Nov. So I'd need another saddle in the interim.

I definitely don't want the saddle to pinch or be uncomfortable in any way. There are enough things to work out starting a colt without creating your own rodeo. And I really want my horses to be comfortable so they perform at their best.

Thank you so much for tackling the seat size issue!! You handled a tricky subject quite tactfully. I've tried to get an answer both from the internet and from other people who ride without much luck. As you've said, I think it all comes down to personal preference. I'm not a very big person (5'3", 115 lbs, fairly muscular). My preferences with a dressage saddle tend towards the minimalist; deep close seat with a wide twist (I know not the standard for most women), with minimal thigh/knee blocking. I like to be able to move around a little in my saddle, and be able to swing a leg freely if I need to ~ especially when riding young or bronc-y horses. So, I guess a 15" could well fit me fine. I'm planning to drive to Freckers on Saturday to see if that 15" saddle fits me.

Thanks again for all your help!!

Teddy

[HannahT]

I know this is an old post, but what Keith Seidel said toward the top of this discussion about the common problems with fitting a young horse (too tight in the shoulders, rising up in the back) is exactly what I'm having trouble with. I have a 3-year-old QH that I'm having trouble fitting, and he's obviously uncomfortable in the saddles I have, though my older horse doesn't really seem to have a problem with them. I don't want to have something made for him specifically, because I don't ride many young horses, so I'd like to find a pad that'll even my wade saddle out. I'm just starting to ride him, and the last thing I need is for him to be so uncomfortable with the saddle now that he bucks every time I put one on him. So my question is, what kind of pad is good for that kind of adjustment? I've had the same kind of trouble with pads that I've had with saddles--I've gone through a ton of them and none of them have been great. I'm willing to spend whatever I have to, just to get everything feeling good for him. I'd prefer to find something that I can use to also adjust for my 21-year-old Appaloosa, who generally needs extra shoulder padding but isn't have trouble with keeping weight on. Would a panel pad be the best, and how would I change the panels out to fit my little guy?

[oltoot]

This basic; if a saddle is too tight anywhere, more pads can only make it tighter, if it's too big, however, pads can fill in spaces. That makes the decision as to have a "colt" saddle or not one complicated by lots of things, dollars being big. It is certainly true that colts' new worlds of being changed from a free to controlled being are really full of change and what a great blessing it is that most are remarkably flexible and adaptable. All that said, we can just try not to hurt or scare them as we introduce them to the role they will occupy for years to come. If we can avoid that we have great things to look forward to. We run the risk of overthinking this as we try not to be thoughtless. Balance!!   

[HannahT]

So, providing my saddle is actually big enough for him, can I combat the pinched-withers-and-rising-in-back problem by removing the shoulder shims from a panel pad? I haven't had much experience with young horses' backs--the other horse I ride has to have padding to fill in around his withers. I've been looking through the pads that Diamond Wool offers.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Rising in the back is often a sign of a saddle that is too wide in the front. Removing the shoulder shims would make it come up in the back even more.  Just my opinion, as saddle fitting is one of the most controversial subjects known to man.  I even came across a website of a lady that's been building saddles for many more years than I have, and she claims we all saddle our horses with the saddle set too far back, and that the bar pads should be up OVER the shoulder blades and the rigging set further back to keep the saddle there.  She claims many of the sore backed horses are made sore by the bar pads sitting BEHIND the shoulder blades, and gullet widths need to be much wider, 8 inches or even more.  Her saddles are much in demand by the barrel racing crowd. I'd have to see the proof to be convinced, but she is very adamant on her theory.

[Tosch]

Big Sioux,
could you give us a link to the website you mentioned, please. Just curious what the lady saddle maker has to say. Sounds  like something that was discussed here on this forum a number of years back.  Thanks in advance.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2016 by Tosch