Shorts Report post Posted July 19, 2008 I love Ring's blue guns. However, I wish the 1911 models were all C&L. Has anyone added an additional piece to simulate locked on a non-locked model. I was thinking of just adding a nice piece of epoxy for the thumb ledge. This gives the added bonus off molding both positions at the same time. Any thoughts? Oh, before it is suggested, I know if I mold from the real thing I can position the buttons how I prefer. Unfortunately at this time I do not have any access to firearms due to location. So, molds are all I have for the time being...and next 7mths. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billsotx Report post Posted July 19, 2008 Have you looked at the c&l Springfield 1911 on Ring's web? It might work for you. Look in the pdf catalogue. In an email from John Ring he said: "We do a big business with holster manufactures, using our weapons for plugs. The weapons are solid and blue throughout. We do recommend not having the “Final Finish” put on the weapons, which is a light coating of die. This sometimes comes off on the holsters during your manufacturing process." I think you're best bet is to call them: Ring's Manufacturing, 99 East Drive, Melbourne, FL 32904, (321) 951-0407 Ph., (321) 951-0017 Fax, www.blueguns.com. Like you say their products are tops and so is their customer service, in my opinion. Hope this helps. ~Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwinOaks Report post Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) Shorts, Mold the holster the way you can, and don't worry about the position of the safety. Horseshoe leather states that his holsters are molded in that posiiton (unlocked- inferring cond. 2 or 3 carry) so that he can't be accused of advocating cond. 1 carry (paraphrased), and thereby avoid lawsuits. Rings is probably thinking the same thing. If you really think about it, it won't effect the carry options at all if you don't detail mold that area. That's one little safeguard in a highly litiguos world. On the several 1911 holsters I made, I left the safety area unmolded, relying on time and pressure of the owner's use to mold the leather. If you really want to mold tightly to the bluegun, I still don't think it'd matter, because the plunger should stop the movement of the safety unless 'actively' disengaged. Of course, epoxying in a little wedge would leave you with two things to mold to, offering the choice. I think I can pretty well guess your postion on which condition is best for carry... Edited July 19, 2008 by TwinOaks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOOMSTICKHolsters Report post Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) I've actually considered doing the same thing with my dummy guns, Shorts. I just haven't found a way to make them hold up. I even broke the molded saftey off of my Springfield Micro dummy recently and that really made me think about it (I'm pretty rough on my dummy guns when I mold holsters, so it would have to be really sturdy). I have basically decided that the only real way to do it is to mill a slot into the side of the dummy gun in the shape of the safety, and bend some aluminum bar stock to fit the pattern and Gorilla Glue it in place. I'm certain that would work, but I'm already far enough behind, and that would take a lot of time to accomplish on all my dummy guns (not to mention the cost of shoptime to get someone to cut the slots in for you if you don't have access to a mill). If it helps any, Ring's does offer a few of their 1911 dummies cocked and locked if you ask them for it, but I'm sure you knew that. Concerning the safety position, I believe that you should carry the pistol the way it was meant to be carried. 1911 pistols are much safer with the safety on than if the hammer is lowered on a chambered round. The alternative is to carry without a round chambered, but that's putting yourself at such a disadvantage you should really consider buying a different pistol that's compatible with your philosophy, or even better, getting some proper training (this is the real heart of the c&l vs. hammer down matter, in my opinion). Those who are scared of cocked and locked carry are typically poorly educated and inexperienced when it comes to handguns. There is also a school of thought that molding the safety in the down position for someone who is going to carry cocked and locked is actually more likely to get you sued than advocating C&L carry. The reason is that your holster may be held responsible for inadvertently knocking the safety in the off position, which in turn leads to a negligent discharge by the user (again, this would still be avoided with proper handling which is a bi-product of good training). Either way, I'm not a lawyer so I would look into this matter yourself and get a lawyer's opinion about what kind of disclaimer you might need for whatever holsters you build. Edited July 19, 2008 by BOOMSTICKHolsters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
K-Man Report post Posted July 19, 2008 What Jeff said is pretty much right on the money. If you want to mold the holsters with the safety off, then make sure your customers who order holsters for a 1911 frame know that. Otherwise, you're going to have a bunch of unhappy customers and a bunch of unsafe holsters. There's a much greater risk/liability in that respect. And once the word gets out that you're molding holsters with the safety down, your sales are going to go down as well.... But that's a choice as the holstermaker that you have to make for yourself. The blue guns have very low durability with respect to parts that extend out from the frame of the gun. Until someone comes up with a better version in that respect, there's not much you can do. Putting a gun in a holster that's sandwiched into a press is going to break the pieces off the blue guns in relatively short order. I've seen a great number of people get into the holstermaking because they think it's quick and easy money. But more importantly, there's inherent risks associated with making holsters. And unless a person is willing to address those risks and liabilities, they should be turning thier attention to other aspects of the leathercraft industry where there's less risk/liability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shorts Report post Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) Thanks for the thoughts gentlemen, they give me some things to think about. The reason I posed this idea was I got feedback from customer saying that'd be the only thing he'd change on the holster, mold to C&L. And yes, you can probably guess what my thoughts on it are. I do have several 1911 blue guns, including the C&L Springfield. The gun/holster in this question is a Colt Commander. I cannot use a full size Springfield to mold a Commander holster. Also there are slight dimensional differences in the brands of full size 1911s so it is important the correct blue gun be used (the Colt 1911 is slimmer than the Springfield). As for the 3", that *seems* to be universal around the board for the most part. No complaints yet. Bill I am considering dropping Ring's a line to make mention of it. I know I wouldn't be the first to make the suggestion, it may help them decide to put one out. Thank you for the contact info. Mike, I'm not sure if the sweat shield holsters are as tricky as thumb breaks in the thumb safety regard (I've never carried with them). Hubby had a Glaco thumb break that liked to flip the safety off on a C&L gun. I always wore holster w/o thumb breaks or sweat shields so if the safety was off, it was because I moved it. Jeff, speaking of breaking parts, I broke the tip of the grip safety off my Commander several days ago. I might round that all out for a BT grip safety Of course, it really doesn't matter one bit to the holsters what's going on with the tip of the grip safety, I just don't leave my things alone. Aluminum bar stock you say? Funny how I have a strap of that lying on the floor...and Gorilla Glue on the table... I wonder what the implications would be if I had both positions molded into the holster. Sure, the dummy gun would look funny, but the holster would be molded for either and carry preference would be the user's choice. Of course, I see it as all common sense, but as mentioned, there are some real characters out there who would say it was my fault they NDed. The "L" word, probably should consult with one. Kevin, thanks for the info. I'll start letting the customer's know the position the thumb safety will be molded in. The risks do need to be addressed. If they're ignored, they'll only come out of the closet one day. Edited July 19, 2008 by Shorts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwinOaks Report post Posted July 20, 2008 Why not just order a frame safety (mil spec or extended) and drill a hole in the blue gun? That would pretty much solve the problem. I've seen ambi safeties for as little as $35-40, so single side safeties should be in that range, maybe a little lower. Order both plain and extended, and because they use the same pin hole location, they're interchangeable. Jeff, just because I'm a 1911 afficianado, I'd like to raise a point. The 1911 wasn't intended to be carried in any particular way. JMB designed the pistol per the military's specs. The beauty of the 1911 platform is that it can be carried 4 ways, relying on the user to determine the best method at any particular time. (yes 4, not 3- cond. 0, 1, 2, and 3) I do agree with you that the 1911 should be carried in cond. 1, if there is a possibility that it might be needed (and if you decide to carry it, you probably are intending to be prepared). I also agree that the most dangerous aspect of cond. 2 is lowering a hammer on a live round- most uninformed people believe that there's a severe danger of the pistol being dropped and firing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shorts Report post Posted July 20, 2008 (edited) See Mike, there you go with your "common sense" again. Keep that up and I'll have to put you on speed dial Ok, I should finish up with this cross draw pattern already. I'm gearing up for IWB hardware to rollin too. Then I can finally continue my path of world domination...which of course is my work room for now :D Edited July 20, 2008 by Shorts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwinOaks Report post Posted July 20, 2008 World domination, eh? Sounds like you caught too many episodes of "Pinky and the Brain" ...NARF!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites