Oblong Punch That Won't, Grrrrrr

[DoubleC]

OK< so I get a heavy duty oblong punch that practically takes a bank loan to buy. Of course no instructions come with it, and I couldn't get it to punch through a concho. So I tried a piece of left over leather that had been dyed but wet it, and again, and again and it did finally punch through. The silver color on the end is angled, have no idea why. I'm assuming it's a directional thing, but have no idea if the wide part goes right or left. Do you need to use these on cased but not yet colored leather? And what is the angle for? I'm so frustrated at being bumfuzzled over something this simple. All help appreciated. Cheryl

[bruce johnson]

Who made it? Is this a new punch? If so most of them need sharpening help, some more than others. Some of the newer Osborne oval punches have a heck of an angle on them and can bind on thicker leathers. I took a couple and really flattened the bevel and made them better. That takes a fair amount of time to make them work. Once they are sharp they ought to cut most any kind of leather without a lot of effort.

[DoubleC]

Yes first time I used it. I think it's an Osborne from TLF but it may be another brand. So I should strop it? Should I wet the leather too? Odd I can remember wincing from hitting the buy at 40 bucks more than I can if it's Osborne or not :-) The leather I'm trying to cut isn't thick, maybe 1/16th of an inch?

[DoubleC]

OK Bruce I stropped it until my arms fell off but no noticing much difference? Does it need a whetstone too? Or just a good toss out in the street? Thanks, Cheryl

[Northmount]

Look at this post and scroll down to rickybobby and to Bruce's comments. http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=36751&st=0&p=227224&hl=+oblong%20+punch&fromsearch=1entry227224 Need proper board to punch against, solid support, and heavy enough mallet.

CTG

[DoubleC]

Thanks.... mallet's got me I'm sure. So need to get one of those before I start whining....going to the thread. Cheryl

[bruce johnson]

If it is an Osborne, it will be stamped on the handle. TLF may still sell a few Osborne tools, but they phased most of them out a few years ago. It sure could be one that was made for them. In eiother case if it really cones down you might need to do some serious reshaping. That will take a some profiling with a coarse stone and then finer to remove the grit marks until it looks pretty good. Follow that up with stropping if you feel the need. The edge needs to be sharp and a very slight bevel inside to prevent the edge from rolling.

[DoubleC]

Thank you Bruce. It's a Taiwan Tandy special so no, not Osborne. first time I looked on the handle. And besides needing sharpening, I realized my 2 YO cheap wooden mallet from Tandy is no longer going to get it. I'll be over to see what you have available. Thanks for your help. Cheryl

[Glendon]

This is one of the reasons I stopped buying at Tandy quick, fast, and in a hurry after I found this forum. A few of the advertisers here still sell Osborne's and other intermediate tools I guess you could call them. Maybe not up to some of the other full pro grade tools, but magnitudes better then the Tandy off brands. I personally go to Springfield first, but there are others too. I don't go to Tandy at all unless they have one of their super sales.

[DoubleC]

I checked Springfield and got this one a few bucks cheaper than theirs on eBay. You get what you pay for, what can I say. And I'm just now starting to buy what I'd call good tools. Fortunately I did get my end punch at SLC. Now I need a maul. My fault, I should have been picking these up a little at a time but hindsight is 20-20. When I decided I wanted to make a guitar strap for a friend, all these tools I needed to get hit me pretty hard but of course they aren't gonna disappear after the first strap. But no making it now until the first of the month because I just can't spend anymore this month Glendon.

[Sylvia]

Hi Cheryl:

I have a 1.5 inch oblong and the same thing happened to me. took me about 6 hours to bash my way through 9oz leather 8 times. When I finally took a really good look at the thing I realized that one end was thicker than the other. When I get time I'll be spending some time with the grinder and the dremel on it. So yeah, yours probably needs to be sharpened REALLY well.

S

[DoubleC]

Yup, mine is 1 & 1/2 inch too, and using a strop didn't seem to do a thing, and I had to bash my way through one of my thin conchos. I was trying to do an inlay on it to practice. It didn't do too bad after the bashing but when I decided to sew the concho, lizard and suede my 15-91 got away from me, LOL so it's my eye now. I haven't ever made me a new one, still wearing the last one I made by hand. I wanna tell you Sylvia, I don't look forward to bashing out 5 more of these in a guitar strap. And I can't get a maul right now, so it's either wait to get that and two kinds of whetstones or bash my way through.

[reddevil76]

When it comes to tools, I nowadays try to buy from Goodsjapan.jp

The prices are very reasonable. For example, the strap end punch I bought was not only cheaper than Tandy's pro series, Goodsjapan included free shipping as well. (Tandy charges me $33 to ship a bunch of stamping tools)

The strap end punch came sharp, took me only one whack with a rawhide mallet to go through a 12oz belt end. With my 20oz Barry King maul, the punch practically embedded itself into my poly cutting board.

It's been almost a year and it is still sharp as ever with no stropping necessary.

I like the free shipping policy as when I doing online shopping at their site, i look at the prices and I know that is the price I am going to pay. Unlike other retailers, you add a few sales items into the shopping cart, and when you check out, you find an obscene amount on the shipping and forced to cancel. By then you would have wasted maybe an hour doing this "shopping".

Unfortunately I can't find everything I want there, but most stuff is available.

[Sylvia]

The whetstone will work. Somewhere on Youtube is a video on how to sharpen these oblongs. I'll try to find it for you.

ok... the oblong section starts at about 3:00 in this video.

[DoubleC]

Thanks Sylvia. Now I just need to figure out where in the heck you get a whetstone these days. I haven't seen one of those since my uncle died 10 years ago. Oh and lets not forget I need a maul....and who knows what else. This is quite the expensive addiction we have :-)

[TwinOaks]

In lieu of a maul, you could get a CHEAP dead-blow hammer from Harbor Freight. Since you're punching conchos with it, the db hammer might be a better option anyway....no (or at least very little) bounce.

Beater

You can find viable whet stones at Lowe's, Home Depot,...and Harbor Freight. You could pick up both solutions for about $20. clicky

[bruce johnson]

When you said you were using the punch on a concho I guess I immediately thought you were using an oval punch, not a 1-1/2" slot punch. Yeah, it still will need to be sharpened but it will be an exercize in frustration to use a wooden mallet even on a sharp 1-1/2 punch. I use a 2# maul for my bigger slot punches. Usually one or two hits and it's cake. Now going back to the original post where you mentioned something was wider or different than the other. How far off is it? It should be symmetrical. If one end is wider, that isn't right except for a trace punch and I can be pretty assured that TLF isn't selling trace punches.

[DoubleC]

Mike you are a real sight for sore eyes. No, I'm using an oblong punch on a guitar strap I WAS making for a friend, but trying to decide if I really like him THAT well :-) I have a strap end cutter coming, probably tomorrow that Bruce figures will need sharpened too. The maul I've needed, I've been using a cheap Tandy wood mallet for about 2 years now. Time I move up to grown-up tools. I just can't this month. I already got the leather, 2" end punch, 1 & 1/2" oblong punch, 1/2 lb exotics, contact cement (I've been using leather glue) beeswax, rotary knife; the list really does go on a while Now these aren't perishables, well mostly, but even those I'll use before they do, but the whetstone and maul has to wait until next month. I can't squeeze anything else in this month.

I'm not talking about you Mike because you know me and my situation better than most, but people don't understand at times when they say 'you need to get this, that and a few more things to do ONE thing' that someone like me might try, and plan but when you have nothing but cheap tools, conchos, and dyes, etc. man you should see how fast it adds up. I've been buying what I had to have for my 'eyes' and little else and I have a lot to catch up now that I realize I am not going to be able to use 7 tools and a wooden mallet :-)

I saw a frog doing research for something online and immediately thought of you. Welcome back buddy

[DoubleC]

Oh yeah I used it on a concho tonight just to practice using the punch and doing an inlay before I start on the guitar strap. No it's all black except at the top and and the part of the silver that shows, isn't painted I mean, is angled where one end has more showing than the other and I just wondered it that was a guide for punch dummies like myself, end with most silver goes left or right or whatever. I'll scan a picture Bruce and show you, I am talking like an idiot. brb. Below is concho I practiced on.....

[DoubleC]

This is what I meant about the silver at the top......

[Jax]

Hi, I don't know if this suggestion will be of any use to you but here goes, instead of the oblong punch (we call them crew punches in the U.K.) can't you use a large round hole or small wad punch twice, 1 either end of the slot and then carefully cut between them top and bottom? This could be an alternative to get your guitar starp done until you get your other punch sorted, regarding that it looks like a badly made punch to me, because of the angle of the handle in your picture I would think you will always get an uneven cut i.e the force of the strike from your mallet will be more 1 end than the other, meaning you may have to turn the punch around to get it to go through the leather at both ends. TwinOaks suggestion of a dead blow mallet is excellent I have used 1 of those for years with my punches (never for tooloing) and it really does make punching mush easier, also make sure you are punching on a good solid surface this will prevent your punch from bouncing, I put my marble over the leg of my workbench and put my cutting board on top of that, it does make a difference. I hope some af this at least has made sense and good luck getting this problem sorted. You are very right this can be a very expensive passtime, its worth it though!!!

Edited May 18, 2012 by Jax

[DoubleC]

Thank you Jax. It all made sense and I'm whining but the thing is I have enough of everything to make four straps not just one so I'll get at least my investment of these tools back. You first suggestion isn't really an option for as far as 'carefully cutting' anything. My hands just work when they want to and they never want to do any careful cutting. Over run by 2" yes, or undercut, or zig instead of zag, but never a nice neat cut. I have no idea what a dead blow mallet is but I can try one. I saw that mentioned a couple places and it even SOUNDS cheaper than a 2# maul :-) And I will move my marble next time too and see if that helps. I'll try anything at this point so I can start on the strap; I've been planning it out for about 3 weeks and I'm chomping at the bit to get started. I watched the youtube tutorial twice already PLUS took notes. Thanks so much for your help, Cheryl

[Art]

Cheryl,

Take that darned thing back to TLF and get your money back. Tell them it is just unusable. Then call Bruce on the phone or Vandy at Sheridan and talk to them. Tell them you are a novice and get the tool you need, ready to go. CSO is a toolmaker for professionals. They seldom provide anything sharpened, even knives; they may be kind of sharp, but barely that. They expect any pro can sharpen anything he uses daily. You have to learn to sharpen, even something you get bleeding sharp will eventually get dull.

Good places to buy:

Bruce Johnson (vintage)

Bob Douglas thru Vandy at Sheridan Outfitters (vintage)

Brettuns Village Barton Churchill (in Lewiston, Maine, 557 Lincoln Street)

Weaver Leather Master Series Tools

These are the folks I use, so I can recommend them. There are other toolmakers in the US who also produce excellent quality stuff.

While a 1 1/2 by 3/16 bag punch of good quality will run you about $95, the amount of frustration you will have to endure with the $40 POS you purchased will more than exceed the overall cost of the good tool.

Art

[DoubleC]

OMG I wish I had said all that. I DIDN'T buy it from Tandy, I bought it on eBay and it was a Tandy when it came. But I can return it. POS, POS, I wanted to say that so bad. Thanks Art, will contact seller right now. (Seriously $40.00 for one tool I thought meant it WAS good :-(

[DoubleC]

Done, and he accepts returns so I just have to pay to ship it back. Less than the tool and a lot less than dealing with it. Thanks again Art. Cheryl