Fiebling's Oil Dye

[Campchair]

Any suggestions for removing the pigment left on the surface when Fiebling's Oil Dye is applied pretty heavily so as to get good coverage. Just finished a Southern Mountain type flintlock rifleman's bag (copy of original) and had to really pile it on to duplicate the very dark brown color of the original. Original appeared to have been dyed with harness oil with tint added, like we use now. Very dark brown, almost black, with a slightly "greasy" feel. I dyed it several times, then applied 50/50 neatsfoot & beeswax dressing, which usually does not react with any dye; just usually softens the leather. I've rubbed it down with clean rags to blot the excess pigment and dressing several times after setting it in out the hot Alabama sun, (It's already 90+ here) and still get rub-off. Would hard scrubbing several times using saddle soap well rubbed while it is hot help? This has happened before. Used the oil dye because the original was very, very supple de-haired calf, about 2-3Oz.wt., "greasy" feeling, and I didn't want to go the re-softening route after using spirit dye. I'm about to the Acetone + frustration stage....

CAMPCHAIR

[Sylvia]

I feel for you Camp: It seems everyone swears by Oil Dye, but I've had just as many problems with it as any other spirit dye. I have a few questions. Did you let the dye dry between coats? I'm talking 24 hours here.

The last "oil" dye I used was a black... it did the same thing that spirit dye did... but it had a tendency to move around on the surface instead of just rubbing off. I finally just sealed over the crap with eco flo and then sealed with an acrylic sealer.

Unless you are under a deadline, I suggest that you leave it for a couple days to dry. Then check to see if there is improvement.

Good luck.

[Spinner]

I find it very interesting that some folks have issues with Oil dyes. To date I have had no issues with rub off (except with USMC Black) and I use it exclusively on my tank bibs - I go through at least one 32 oz. bottle a month. Some of those are very large pieces that I expect folks to rub against quite a bit so rub off is a huge concern.

First a few questions - are you using the dye from the 4oz or larger bottles? Did the bottle look newish (no dust, etc) in the store when purchased? How long has it sat around the shop? Did you use a deglazer or at least clean the piece with alcohol prior to dying?

I have found that Pro Oil dye acts a little differently than the others when it gets old. The carrier medium stays liquid, unlike the others that simply evaporate, but gets thicker as time goes on after opening the bottle. Left long enough, it turns the consistency of mud before it even starts to dry out. What this means to the end user is more pigment - less carrier and thus less penetration & more rub off.

Now, if it still looks 100% good and flows like water then it may be the application method. Of all methods to apply dyes, I have found the good 'ol trimmed wool scrap to work the best. Paint brushes, daubers and rags tend to apply a thinner top coating layer whereas the wool scrap unloads the dye very well as soon as it hits the leather (or your hands, clothes, etc). Saturate the wool scrap, rub on in a circular motion, overlapping the last areas dyed by 50% or so. Let sit for 10-15 minutes and apply a second coat in the same manner. The piece will feel pretty 'wet' and soft. After the second application, I use the unloaded wool scrap to 'massage' the leather and remove any extra pigment. Seems odd to use a wool scrap previous loaded with dye to remove pigment but it works. Now, without letting it dry completely, apply a generous coat of Neatsfoot Oil using a new cloth (I like diaper cloth or automotive polishing rags for this) and saturate the piece using the same overlapping circular motion. Let sit overnight. When you come back to the piece, use a fresh rag and buff the surface, medium pressure in the same overlapping, circular motion. There should be very little rub off at this point. Apply a good finish like Resolene, Saddle-Lac, etc. (matte or satin finishes are also fine like Bag-Kote, etc) per the instructions, let dry. Last step, apply a good leather dressing like Pecard's and rub in well & buff to finish.

Personally, I'm not fond of the just oil & beeswax finish on a heavily dyed piece. Wax never truly dries and wears off easily. On hot days it can reliquify easily and if it's absorbed enough of the dye during application, the rub off/buffing of the wax will come off tinted. Heavily dyed pieces that are intended to be handled or come into contact with often should have some kind of a sealing top coat, but that's my opinion.

That's my process, other will undoubtly differ so take it with a grain of salt.

Cheers,

Chris

Edited May 23, 2012 by Spinner

[ramrod]

no issues here....BUT, you have to let it dry completely. i redyed someone's bag and thought that i ruined it. it seemed as if it would never "even out". left it overnight and it was prfect - just like coach did it from the factory.

you really have to let it set and not apply anything to it for at least 12 hours.

[hidepounder]

.......what they said!!! They said it well!!:banana:

[chancey77]

Dye does go bad if it isn't used in a certain amount of time, and you have to let it sit for 12 hrs. sometimes.

I have had many bottles of dye go bad on me over the years because after opening them they didn't get used fast enough.

This could be something to think about as well. Keep dyes stored in a dark place and avoid sunlight on the bottles. Also use what you have to without leaving the cap open to long....So pour small batches and use those.

I have tried every brand of black out there, and sometimes they just have a weird reaction and get lighter somehow, like a faded black; I know then that the batch has gone bad.

[Campchair]

I find it very interesting that some folks have issues with Oil dyes. To date I have had no issues with rub off (except with USMC Black) and I use it exclusively on my tank bibs - I go through at least one 32 oz. bottle a month. Some of those are very large pieces that I expect folks to rub against quite a bit so rub off is a huge concern.

First a few questions - are you using the dye from the 4oz or larger bottles? Did the bottle look newish (no dust, etc) in the store when purchased? How long has it sat around the shop? Did you use a deglazer or at least clean the piece with alcohol prior to dying?

I have found that Pro Oil dye acts a little differently than the others when it gets old. The carrier medium stays liquid, unlike the others that simply evaporate, but gets thicker as time goes on after opening the bottle. Left long enough, it turns the consistency of mud before it even starts to dry out. What this means to the end user is more pigment - less carrier and thus less penetration & more rub off.

Now, if it still looks 100% good and flows like water then it may be the application method. Of all methods to apply dyes, I have found the good 'ol trimmed wool scrap to work the best. Paint brushes, daubers and rags tend to apply a thinner top coating layer whereas the wool scrap unloads the dye very well as soon as it hits the leather (or your hands, clothes, etc). Saturate the wool scrap, rub on in a circular motion, overlapping the last areas dyed by 50% or so. Let sit for 10-15 minutes and apply a second coat in the same manner. The piece will feel pretty 'wet' and soft. After the second application, I use the unloaded wool scrap to 'massage' the leather and remove any extra pigment. Seems odd to use a wool scrap previous loaded with dye to remove pigment but it works. Now, without letting it dry completely, apply a generous coat of Neatsfoot Oil using a new cloth (I like diaper cloth or automotive polishing rags for this) and saturate the piece using the same overlapping circular motion. Let sit overnight. When you come back to the piece, use a fresh rag and buff the surface, medium pressure in the same overlapping, circular motion. There should be very little rub off at this point. Apply a good finish like Resolene, Saddle-Lac, etc. (matte or satin finishes are also fine like Bag-Kote, etc) per the instructions, let dry. Last step, apply a good leather dressing like Pecard's and rub in well & buff to finish.

Personally, I'm not fond of the just oil & beeswax finish on a heavily dyed piece. Wax never truly dries and wears off easily. On hot days it can reliquify easily and if it's absorbed enough of the dye during application, the rub off/buffing of the wax will come off tinted. Heavily dyed pieces that are intended to be handled or come into contact with often should have some kind of a sealing top coat, but that's my opinion.

That's my process, other will undoubtly differ so take it with a grain of salt.

Cheers,

Chris

Chris, I think what is happening here is the wax is melting and carrying the pigment out. The application was in a small dip tank. I use it a lot for oil dye as otherwise, I have problems getting good coverage. The original was dark, dark brown, very solid colored, no "toning"and I think it would run out if I sat it in the hot sun. However, it's in a museum, and that's not possible to investigate if this might be the case. I believe the original was soaked in dark harness oil at some period of it's life. It was made in the Smokey Mountain region about 175 years ago and was handed down in one family. Anything is possible. Coating the repo is not possible as this is to be an exact stitch-for-stitch replica. Wonder if I could set it out in the sun for a couple of hours and scrub it down with acetone? I've tried this before with fairly good results. I have a feeling I have made the replica a tad too good; it duplicated some of the original's faults! I usually just use the beeswax/neetsfoot oil mix on spirit dyed items. I've always had really good results softening the leather back down, but I was afraid to use spirit dye on leather this thin, so I went for the oil. The customer wanted it to be "greasy", so I did the wax/oil and the trouble began. I'll try the acetone and see if it will get it down to where it won't rub off and report.Campchair

[scameron]

Hi there, I am new here and found this thread the other night when I was in bed kind of half asleep. When I went to look for it again (3 days ago), I could not find it! This was exactly what I was looking for. You folks know so much!!!!

So, I have some coach bags in need of rehab and I am thinking this is going to become somewhat of a little side business.. I have tons of friends excited about me fixing their bags and are willing to pay... so I am willing to do....

As I am searching around for what products to use on the internet, I am quite overwhelmed. So, that is when I came here. So here is what I am doing for the most part: I have some old coach bags that have color rub off on edges, bottoms, straps. Most of them just need touchups, But I do have one in particular, that could probably use a complete dye job, leather is super dry and old color is worn off and leather is brown underneather the black... ick. So, my questions are these: Note, I am completely new at this but am a refinisher of furniture and such so I am familiar somewhat with applications of various sorts of stains, paints, etc.

Are there any dye touch up "pens"??? (im thinking no, but want to ask anyway)

If I want to do a complete dye job, I assume use oil fieblings (from what i read on here) and would I need to use a "deglazer" that I have heard about on here?ok, so I have to admit, I took an old beat up bag with tons of color loss and coated it with kiwi leather dye and it looks great... but very flat. Now im wondering if I should re do it after reading about everything here about fieblings. And, I have not sealed it yet. Do you think I should re do it or just seal it and it will be fine?

MOST OF MY PROJECTS WILL BE BLACK, NAVY OR BROWN.

If I have a super old dry bag, should I deeply condition first prior to dyeing, and what conditioner? I keep hearing about blackrocks on THE PURSE FORUM.

Sealing--to me the most important part. Spinner, I am with you on this. I want to apply a good seal since bags are worn on the body. I want to have a luster when I am done but not a hard \plastic like finish. I keep hearing about resolene, but I am afraid it will be too hard of a finish from what I hear from some...

And, ideas for fillers? I have some little gouges on some bags... I have attached a pic of one of those, as well examples of some color I would like to replace on a couple of bags.

Also, I am a mom with three kids, one disabled. I love my projects, but need them to be efficiently executed.. so I dont want to buff for 4 hours (one poster said this and I panicked). So, I need the expertise of all of you. I literally need step by step directions for this. If it already exists on here, lead me. The options of everything involving leather are endless it seems! i want to spend my money wisely and not go through tons of products searching for the right ones for my bags. And most of all, I want the leather to remain soft and supple with a slight luster.

Additionally, has anyone used this product called "Leather refinisher"? it seems to come in tons of colors. I cant find any reviews..... its on amazon, ebay... sounds great, but not sure.. it seems to dye and condition in one step??? I will find a link and post.

Lastly, where is the best place to buy the products, once I have my list of items I will need?

I THANK ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR HELP. I AM EXCITED TO GET STARTED AND LOVE TO REHAB OLD THINGS INSTEAD OF BUYING NEW. THANKS!!!

[scameron]

here is that leather refinisher stuff... I heard about it on the purse forum... only mentioned, could not get info if someone actually used it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/180949929808?hlp=false&var=