Problems With 211G155

[ramrod]

i'm having a bit of a problem with my 211g155. about a year ago, i asked a few questions about getting it going and the like. in one of the replies, wiz stated that i can use a 138 thread as a max size. well, i bought some 138 bonded polyester to use on the machine. i kept the 69 bottom bobbin thread in and threaded the machine, as i started to sew on some scrap, i noticed that the bobbin thread is not feeding at all. on the first go, i had to clear a rat's nest of thread from the bobbin assembly and went at it again. same thing - the bobbin thread is not being picked up. i never encountered a problem using 69 top and bottom.

i didn't change the needle size (whatever THAT is - i can't read any of the designations on the needle. they're too faint)

help!

[Wizcrafts]

A thread rat's nest under the material is usually caused by a total lack of top tension. However, the bobbin thread is usually picked up in those situations; it's just tighter on the bottom than the top my a magnitude.

Failure to pick up the bobbin thread can be caused by the bobbin thread jamming inside the case, or timing that has been thrown out by a jam, or the wrong needle size or orientation, or a bobbin shuttle that is too tight in its housing and won't allow the thicker top thread to pass both over and under it. Finally, the check spring position can have some effect of the forming of a loop under the throat plate.

You are going to have to take off the throat plate and watch the needle come down and ascend in a narrow test strip. Hand-spin the wheel slowly and see what is happening to the top thread when the shuttle point passes the cut-out in the needle's eye region. First of all, the eye must be under the point as it passes by. The loop must face up and out to get picked up. Once picked up, the top thread should be carried around the bobbin case, feeding both over and under it smoothly, without any hang-ups.

Do what you must to make these things happen. Bobbin shuttles are screwed onto the shafts that turn them. Needle bars are screwed into the arms that move them up and down. Screws can come loose and timing can change.

Another thought is if you are using the wrong needle and bobbin for your thread, it might unravel and rat out on you. Are you using left or Z twist thread? One of the bobbins rotates in the best direction for common left twist thread. The other bobbin turns the wrong way and is meant for right twist thread.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Wizcrafts

[ChimeraKennels]

For my Pfaff 145, does it matter which twist thread I use? Also, can I use 138 on both the top and in the bobbin? I don't see much benefit (other than cosmetic) in terms of strength to use a larger thread on top if you are still using a smaller thread on the bottom side to lockstitch it down with.

[Wizcrafts]

For my Pfaff 145, does it matter which twist thread I use? Also, can I use 138 on both the top and in the bobbin? I don't see much benefit (other than cosmetic) in terms of strength to use a larger thread on top if you are still using a smaller thread on the bottom side to lockstitch it down with.

You're right: it makes no sense, until you get into thicker and harder to knot threads, like #415. Then, one would preferably use #346 on the bottom to aid the forming of lockstitches. Some folks using #346 on top will use #277 in the bobbin. It is marginally weaker, but knots easier than 346. Otherwise, the smaller thread becomes the weakest link in any mission critical sewing.

If your Pfaff can properly tension #138, top and bottom, go with that thread. Use a #22 or #23 needle. Use a regular point for your webbing, and leather point for leather collars or leads.

[ramrod]

just got back inside to read this. i'll have a look at this. i'm using left twist thead, and i'll take off the throat plate....again. i did last night to watch what was happening, but as before, the bobbin thread just sat there, so to speak.

i'm in for the evenng so i'll sit down to study this thing.

i'm confused only because the only change i've made was the thread. (any opinions on that?). it was working perfectly - well, maybe a few skipped stitched now and then.

thank you for the replies. i really appreciate the help. i'll post what happens to this beast.

edit: i reread your reply, wiz. i have to clarify. the rat's nest was under the throat plate - not on the bottom of the material. the material never sewed. only the top thread pierced it and i pulled that right out easily because it wasn't captured by the bottom thread.

Edited June 2, 2012 by ramrod

[Wizcrafts]

RamRod;

Then your problem is that either the timing has gone out, or the bobbin and shuttle cannot clear #138 thread, due to too tight vertical adjustment. Do you have manuals for this machine? A mechanic's manual will help you set the clearances and timing.

[CowboyBob]

I would guess since all you did was change the thread & got a rats nest that you didn't thread it properly through the tensions discs & you do not have any thread tension so that's what any machine will do wad up underneath.

[ramrod]

the manual that came with the machine is for a consew model 225. but, i have one that i found online and i have saved. the pictures are not clear at all, so it's hard to see what the instructions are referring to.

as for threading it properly, i followed the route that the #69 thread had taken. i kept the #69 in the machine and ran the 138 parallel to it and then pulled the 69 out.

so, here's what i did last night. i put the 69 thread back in the machine and tried it. it still doesn't pickup the bobbin. when i turned it over very slowly, i noticed that the hook will come around and take up the top thread as well as the bobbin thread. when the hook comes around the next time, it has the top thread from the first pass with it and it picks up the second top thread. now it will have two top threads in the hook. they'll just accumulate if i kep rotating it. i stopped it and snipped the threads and noticed that the bobbin thread was knotted to the top thread. if i kept rotating it, it would just keep picking up the top thread without letting the "first" pickup stay with the material.

also, i noticed that the bobbin case is able to be rotated by hand 3/4 of a turn in either direction. i've not noticed that before. is that normal?

if i could post a video of me turning it over by hand, i will.

sewmun....i did fiddle with the tensions. they seemed to be a tad loose, but i am sure that i've gotten them to where they should be.

Edited June 4, 2012 by ramrod

[CowboyBob]

Before you try to sew you need to pull the bobbin thread up through the feed dog,then when you start sewing hold on the the needle thread for the first 3 stitched.

[ramrod]

oh boy....well, i did hold onto the thread for what i hoped would be three stitches.....no dice. i made sure the bobbin thread came up through the feed dog so both threads were now up on top. as i cycled the machine, the top thread kept pulling back through the eye and finally it got too hard to cycle. JAM! ......crap. i'm convinced that this thing is out of time. i can read my online manual to see how to time it. i simply cannot afford to bring it somwhere for professional elp.

in looking at the juki diagram, it looks like the way it was threaded was close - but not quite exact. i now know that it is threaded properly. thank you for that diagram, sewmun.

i don't know where to go from here except to try to time it myself.

[CowboyBob]

Well wouldn't it make sense that all you did was rethread it & now it's not sewing?Was there anything else you did?Are you sure your threading from the left to the right?

Bob

[Northmount]

in looking at the juki diagram, it looks like the way it was threaded was close - but not quite exact. i now know that it is threaded properly. thank you for that diagram, sewmun.

i don't know where to go from here except to try to time it myself.

I think the experts here could use a few photos of what is happening. Start with how you have the machine threaded. Cycle the machine by hand taking a sequence of photos. Sew along the edge of the leather with the bobin cover off so the bobin and hook are visible as the hook tries to grab the loop by the needle. Get in close and well focused. Resize your photos to about 800x600 pixels so you can get them in your post.

Also check the direction the thread comes off the bobin spool and through the tension spring and compare it to the manual. Correct direction may not seem logical to you. It got me before! Lots of ordinary household machines get thrown in the junk because of this.

CTG

[ramrod]

Well wouldn't it make sense that all you did was rethread it & now it's not sewing?Was there anything else you did?Are you sure your threading from the left to the right?

Bob

yes, all i did was replace the thread. but looking back, i did force it through the initial jams. i didn't think of that earlier only because i've done it before without any problems. that alone makes me think that i threw it out of time.

northmount......yes, pictures are coming. i charged the camera batteries last night. i gotta get some pictures up for all to see.i double checked to see if the bobbin was inserted properly. it is in there correctly. thread comes off the bobbin counterclockwise (from left to right on the bottom).

Edited June 5, 2012 by ramrod

[Wizcrafts]

You've probably knocked the shuttle out of time.Does your machine have a push button on the bed, near the inside bobbin cover? If so, unthread the needle, then press and hold down on the button and turn the handwheel toward you until you hear and feel a distinct click. That would be the shuttle returning to the timed position, or close to it.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Wizcrafts

[ramrod]

o.k....a lot of embarrasment coming up. i reread this post and double checked everything. as i looked at the way the thread went through the needle, i kept saying to myself "yup, left to right....left to right". well, apparently i forgot what side my left was on. it went from right to left!! i am such an idiot. i just kept telling myself i have to be missing something. sure enough, the pros diagnosed it correctly. i have the machine up and running just fine.

thank you so much for all of the input and the time you guys spent to help me out. you guys know really, really know your stuff.

let the flaming begin. go ahead. i can take it. LOL

[Northmount]

Nice to see the problem resolved to your satisfaction. Many people will not publicly own up to embarrassing mistakes. Pat on the back for that.

Resolution may help others to take a second look at their machine problems from a slightly different perspective.

CTG

[ramrod]

thank you, northmount. i really hope it does help someone else.

still banging my head over this one.

[Jimbob]

Heheee.....just join the club...you sure not the only one...haha....guess how we all kow that...

Glad u got her back running again..

Jimbob

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