Early Craftool Stamp Blanks And More

[ghstrydr164]

Sometime back I posted some info and pictures of some un-plated and some unmarked,Craftool and RBS, stamps. http://leatherworker...32

As it turns out about half (30+) of these stamps were really stamp blanks in various stages of completion. I now have some time to deal with these stamps and thought that many of you might like to see how these stamps were made, It may give you some insight for your own stamp making.

You can see that this blank is cast and was for making the #455 Craftool shown next to it.

Three of the blanks were not knurled and the rest of the blanks were either un-marked or stamped with Craftool or RBS and numbers.

All of these blanks came from the same source at the same time so I would think that this shows that the Craftool and RBS stamps were being made at the same facility at the same time.

I would like to here what the advanced collectors of these tools think about the fabrication process based on these blanks in various stages of completion.

[lariat]

Your photos confirm my observations — that the blanks for early tools with designs larger than the shaft were forged, either to make a blank for filing and machining (e.g. the cams) or to create an interior counter to be machined to shape (e.g. the Masonic logo, leaf, and background). I have heard people site the mold lines on the back of the stamp as shown in your first picture of the cam stamps as proof that these stamps were forged rather than hand cut. Your photos prove that in the early days, it was a combination process -- the same cannot be said of current production!

It also explains why I have three #453 cams that if it wasn't for the numbers stamped on them, you would think they were different tools. Two have no prefix letters and one has a C prefix. Two are the same proportions, with one being wider than the other -- but not quite as large as the 455. The other is the same width as the smaller of the two others, but the center is machined out to a greater depth making the contour more narrow. All three have earned a space in the tool case.

I have also observed variations in other tools. One of those is the #206 Pear Shader. One of the variations is tall and more narrow, the other is shorter and wider.

All of this just proves that the earlier tools were hand finished and that standards varied from lot to lot and/or machinist to machinist. In every comparison I've ever made, the early Craftools deliver a cleaner impression than current production.

I bought many of my tools in the "no letter era" and I will stick with them -- they will outlast me! That "dates" me, but after nearly 60 years, one of my favorite things is seeing and feeling a carving come to life as I apply the final decorative swivel cuts.

[WyomingSlick]

Your photos confirm my observations — that the blanks for early tools with designs larger than the shaft were forged, either to make a blank for filing and machining (e.g. the cams) or to create an interior counter to be machined to shape (e.g. the Masonic logo, leaf, and background). I have heard people site the mold lines on the back of the stamp as shown in your first picture of the cam stamps as proof that these stamps were forged rather than hand cut. Your photos prove that in the early days, it was a combination process -- the same cannot be said of current production!

Hi, Welcome to leatherworker.net. Glad to hear from someone else who appreciates how much better the really old craftools from the 50's were than the more recently made ones.

After Tandy bought out Craftool in the early 60's, it seems like it was just one big slide downhill from there.

You may be interested in viewing my blog here on leatherwork.net

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=31

where I discuss some of the issues with leather tools.

The thing with the large cams is just one of the many "slips" in quality that we saw from Tandy as shown in this comparison of the older and newer 455 cams.

Being as the 455 was used to form a seed pod in many patterns, the later C455 just looked crappy as the seed pod was too small and the ray pattern didn't match the flower.

Here is another example of the differance in the convergance of the ray lines of two cams,

[WyomingSlick]

Hi Cyrus, Nice to see some more pics of your old tools and blanks. I am pretty certain that your stuff dates from the 1955 to 1960 period since the oak leaves first appeared in the 1955 catalogs. This would also agree with the time frame for the RBS tools. RBS seems to have appeared before the time that the founder of Craftool,

Dick McGahen , died in the late 50's. Lou Roth, the " R " in RBS, then took over Craftool until it was sold to Tandy in the early 60"s. And yes, it would seem that the same machinists were making both Craftool and RBS tools. One of those toolmakers would have been Ellis Barnes ( The B in RBS ), who also made tools for Cal-Carve, a predecessor company of Craftool in the 1940's. Ellis Barnes is the fellow who later bought out Ray Hackbarth's name and operation after Ray died.

I think that stamp making as far as those early machinists were concerned was an evolving process. The very earliest tools were only minimally forged by hand prior to machining on a lathe and fine grinders. They may have even used bolts as many early toolmakers ( and some today ) do for their starting points. Some may have been flattened out on the end to make the wider tools like veiners and large backgrounders. Some may have even been upset to make larger heads. That may be the source of the two lines on the heads in your second picture. The tools would have been formed in a 2-piece die which could be opened to remove the tool after it was upset.

After Tandy aquired Craftool and moved the operation from California to Texas, the toolmaking process became more industrialized and more and more operations were done on machines, and less and less by skilled machinists. A purview of old Tandy Catalogs show that they stopped touting the hand made angle and ceased mentioning "Quality Control", I don't think very many of their experianced toolmakers moved to Texas with them. I do know that Oliver Sturdy and his brother did. Oliver became the manager for Craftool manufacturing after McGahen died, and continued to work for Craftool in Texas until his retirement.

I know a lot of people like to bash Craftools now, and that is somewhat justified when you look at the drop in quality as compared to the older vintage Craftools. But, the fact is that Craftool is still in business and has provided tools to millions of people over the years at an affordable price. Consider thatin the 1950's, a Craftool would cost about a dollar and a half on the average. This was equivalent to the average hourly working man wage at that time. Craftools today cost less than the average hourly working wage, to put that into perspective. And, on eBay, you can pick up many of those old "better" Craftools at bargain prices.

[buzzardbait]

Thanks for the photos, and the info. Its great to see the blanks. I have around 500 stamps and 325 of those are mostly pre letter Craftool Co. stamps. I have about a dozen RBS stamps and I have wondered about them being produced together. some have identicle numbers and are an exact match when stamped side by side. The quality of the pre 1963 Craftool stamps is great as far as I am concerned. The variations in shapes and sizes are due to variations in forging dies which wear with use and have to be replaced periodically. Variances also take place in the hand grinding process as abraisives and cutting tools wear they change shape and size. then you add the human element of hand grinding and each toolmakers individual "style". I love the variations and differences in these old tools. As a retired Artist Blacksmith I find perfection in the imperfections of Handmade and the fact that they still do a great job when I use them. makes me love them more. Hell I think I'll have them buried with me

[WyomingSlick]

A Craftool Mystery

While collecting Craftools, one of the mysteries I have encountered is the case of the # 519. In one of my tool aquisitions I received a geometric that was not marked with a number, but did have the CRAFTOOL CO marking. Upon comparison with the numbered Craftools of the same type, I found that it fit into the series #518 to #523 in the spot taken by the # 519, which is the smallest companion to the # 524 - 527 series. ( Open atttached pic in new window )

So the question is whether both series consisted of six various sized tools in the days before they started numbering them? Is there perhaps another tool of the same size as the un-numbered one I have, that fits into the the series represented by the #519 and the #524-527 series? Or was it just a case of Craftool developing tools and they ran into a lack of available numbers?

The numbering system that Craftool, RBS, Cal-Carved, and Midas all used was developed by......nobody knows, for sure. The 1946 Cal-Carved and 1947 Craftool Catalogs are the earliest known use of the numbering system that I know of. A curious thing about those catalogs is that a careful comparison of the stamp images in both catalogs show that they are the same images. So what does that signify? Did both take their images from another source? Or, did Craftool take over Cal-Carved about that time? In any case, Cal-carved tools seem to have ceased production about that same time as the latest copyright date on their pattern books seems to be in 1948.

[bruce johnson]

Just to throw another iron in the fire here. I bought a set of tools that had no prefix Craftools and RBS mostly. There were a couple Cal-Carved and a couple marked ELBO and Chatsworth. One source told me that ELBO was one of Ellis's aliases (say that three times fast!). Any thoughts on ELBO?

[WyomingSlick]

Just to throw another iron in the fire here. I bought a set of tools that had no prefix Craftools and RBS mostly. There were a couple Cal-Carved and a couple marked ELBO and Chatsworth. One source told me that ELBO was one of Ellis's aliases (say that three times fast!). Any thoughts on ELBO?

Ah, the old Ellis Barnes iron ! ELBO ? Haven't run across any of those yet. Or the Chatsworth. I do have a couple of stamping tools that Ellis did put the name "BARNES" on though. At least in the early years, Ellis did seem to use the same tool configuration whether he was making tools for Cal-Carved, RBS, or with his name on them. As can be seen in the attached photo, they all were a bit shorter than Craftools, and the knurling was carried closer to the end of the shaft. This was allright for the Cal-Carved and his name since the name went around the shaft, rather than along it. You can see where the number carried into the knurling on some of the RBS tools. Do the names of the ELBOs and Chatsworths run along the shaft or around it?

Could you post some pics of the tools ?

[bruce johnson]

Here are the two CalCarved I have, along with the ELBO marked stamps. Neither of the CalCarved are plated. The ELBO bargrounder isn't plated, the checkered beveler is clean and not knurled. All are magnetic. The "ELBO" was in larger letters the length of the shaft. Chatsworth is in very small lettering the length of the shaft and not into the knurling. These all came in a set with RBS and no prefix Craftools only. Most were plated, but a few of them weren't. Local estate set, not a put-together deal.

- Bruce

[WyomingSlick]

My opinion is that the ELBO and CHATSWORTH names on the tools is probally not to identify the maker but rather the original owner who made the tools for himself, or had them made for him. Kinda like amputating the legs so the tool wouldn't walk off on him, if you know what I mean. LOL

I would guess your Cal-Carved unplated tools are from very early in their production. From everything I've seen, CRAFTOOL was the first to start offering chrome-plated stamps, but I am sure that Cal-Carved soon followed their example. The other possibility is that according to Ron Ross from IILG is that due to chromium being a critical war material, many tools made during the Korean War were not chrome-plated. However, I have never seen anything to indicate that Cal-Carved tools were still in production then.

By the way - Regarding magnetism. Most stainless steel tools do exhibit some magnetism. All of my Hackbarth stamps are stainless but the degree of magnetism in them varies from very slight to about half of that of a Craftool. Even a Barry King tool does have some magnetism although it is very slight. The one CRAFTJAPAN stainless beveler I have seems to have perhaps even a little bit less than the King tool.

[bruce johnson]

John, One other person I asked about the ELBO stamps was Chuck Smith and he popped that right off. He said it was one of Ellis's deals and didn't think he marked them like that very long and thought about the same time frame with the other stamps in this set. They might have been a line for one of the other short-lived early crafting supply sellers in SoCal. Interesting for sure.