Casing leather

[barra]

I like to use a pump up garden sprayer. I find I get a more even spray with just the fine mist the pump up sprayer produces. As for casing solution, it depends on what region I am living in at the time. If in the tropics I might use some sort of mould inhibitor. In summer which here in southern Australia is a dry heat, I either spray or plunge in water til the bubbles stop and bag it til needed. I then let it return to natural colour but still cool. Overall the whole technique depends on region and season of the year but I don't get too bent around the axles about it.

Being a backyard alchemist, I'm still playing with water and casing solutions. I live in Adelaide South Australia so water can be an issue. (The Aussies know what I mean).

Barra

[Art]

Hi Ray,

I lightly oil with #1 Saddle Oil (Bee Natural) two or three days before I wet the leather, I leave it set in the boiler room (85 degrees F, 30% humidity). The trick here is LIGHTLY oil, one coat only, light application, if it soaks up the oil rapidly, don't apply any more. If the leather looks to be in good shape, I skip the oil.

Art

Thanks for all the comments guys - but we haven't got to the bottom of this thing yet!

Art, your green Dawn dishwashing detergent story is brilliant. The stuff urban legends are made of; but sadly all it does is muddy the Pro-Carve waters even further. Let's face it mate, in your own words you "honestly couldn't tell the difference". The interesting part was in the very last sentence: "I do lightly oil the piece a couple of days before wetting it" - so what oil do you use and how long do you leave it?

[bruce johnson]

Bruce takes us back to Pro-Carve's anti fungus properties - nobody is going to argue with you there Bruce, but how does baby shampoo and Lexol work? Do we have any chemists that can explain what is happening here? Is this a sort of leathery botox mixture that fills the dried up skin with moisture? Could we sell it to all those people who spend fortunes on cosmetic surgery? More importantly, I like the idea that it makes stamped impressions clearer - I think that is what you are implying but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ray,

A few things at work here. First off the real baby shampoo/lexol formula is supposed to have Listerine added as an antifungal. I haven't done that, but the first mold I see, will be there. The baby shampoo is adding surfactant and at a neutral pH. The lexol is probably replacing tanning oils that theoretically are being displaced by the casing water. It has been told here and other forums that Lexol is a tradename for one of the tanning oils/fat liquors used in the tanning process. The guys who talk about leather getting progressively harder if it dries out and you try to retool it - I haven't seen that to any degree with this mix.

I wouldn't say that this makes stamp impressions clearer. I think it makes them "darker" and more contrasting, something I strive for with stamped patterns. More to do with moisture control in the leather than anything. I just feel like this mix gives me that golden moisture time longer. I have also top dressed cased leather with saddle soap and it holds moisture longer also. It also can make letter dyeing look pretty funky too. Using some of the antiques and highlighters can give the same burnished contrast as well.

[UKRay]

Barra, thanks for the garden sprayer hint and the down to earth approach to the subject. I'd really like to know what sort of alchemy you are exploring? Have you found anything yet that actually adds to either the tooling/carving/forming 'experience' or the finished product?

Art, what do you think the oiling and setting process actually achieves? Does it 'condition' the leather in some way?

Bruce J, I wondered when we would get around to listerine. Are you talking about good old minty Listerine mouthwash here?

I can see how the baby shampoo would act as a surfactant - but almost any liquid soap would do the same thing - come to that, so would most fabric softeners and they smell nice too (did you get that, Marlon? <grin!>). I may be wrong, but surely a surfactant will make the water more 'slippery' - in other words it will help 'slide' the water between the fibres of the leather and will help to keep it there for a longer period of time -is this what you are trying to achieve?

Lexol is a problem substance as far as I am concerned simply because I have never seen it in the UK. Would anything else work as well for those of us who don't have access to it?

I am completely with you on the desirability of darker, more contrasting stamped patterns, and I suspect most people would feel the same way but is this the only way to get them? Your saddle soap idea seems like a winner but I'm not sure I understand what you mean by making letter dying look funky - does it react with the dyes?

I hope this is as much use to everyone else as it is to me - and thanks to all who are contributing to the pool of knowledge.

I just had a PM from Leatheroo whose amazing masks fill me with delight. She says: I think casing for molding and casing for stamping are quite different. I fill a sink with warm to hot water and submerge the leather until no more bubbles are rising. I need the leather really wet for molding and when it dries the leather goes hard. This method would not be really suitable for most stamping and carving projects unless you wanted the leather to be stiff for the finished product.

So it seems that the project dictates how you case your leather - anyone got any thoughts on that?

[Art]

Hi Ray,

I feel the oil restores some conditioning to leather, especially leathers that have been around awhile. I have some rolls of Tandy leather around that are well over 10 years old, and that stuff generally gets oil before any use.

We aren't talking the "minty" Listerine here. Listerine has Thymol which is a monoterpene phenol and that is most probably the active ingredient. Listerine was named after Joseph Lister who was a proponent originally of Phenol (Carbolic Acid), however Carbolic acid was never used in Listerine. Either Thymol or Phenol would be a good antifungal/antiseptic for addition to caseing solutions. If you have mold/mildew on a piece, you can put it in a plastic bag with a few Thymol crystals and leave it a couple of days to kill it.

More semi-useful info.

Art

Art, what do you think the oiling and setting process actually achieves? Does it 'condition' the leather in some way?

Bruce J, I wondered when we would get around to listerine. Are you talking about good old minty Listerine mouthwash here?

[bruce johnson]

Ray,

There are folks here who know a whole lot more about leather chemicals than me. I think Lexol is a sulphonated neatsfoot oil. I am not sure if it comes under other trade names that might be available there or not. I would anticipate the Listerine called for in the original mix is the plain old brownish looking stuff from the old days. I am also thinking eucalyptus oil, tea tree, or some of the other reported natural antifungals might be fine. I have heard that one of these is the antifungal in ProCarve. Who knows.

Regarding the saddle soap. Apparently in the good old days of the old soak until drowned leathers, saddle soap was purchased in buckets by some shops. They soaped leather to block out pieces. They soaked it and soaped it again to swivelkinfe and tool it. The problem I have with it is that it resists dye somewhat. I have had dye roll off the lettering then soak right in an inch from where you laid it, black can become violet, etc. I don't use it anymore for something I am dyeing, and really haven't used it since I started the other mix.

As far as burnishing effects you can get a somewhat similar effect from antiques and HiLiters too. I have been using a diluted HiLiter to bring out dec cuts and deeper lines.

[Leerwerker]

I asked about the new Eco-Flo version of Pro - Carve: it wets difficult leather better and has the big advantage that it increases the amount of burnishing you get when tooling.

Me and a friend had two beautiful double shoulders we selected to tool on. (part of mine turned into the anatomy study). When he cased his by wiping with a sponge, one part of the leather did not immedialtely soak up the water! On the spur of the moment, he added a shaving of saddle soap to the water and wiped again. Instant success! The leather soaked the water up evenly as the other parts did and all went well...

I'm like Troy I've tried the Pro-Carve and couldn't tell a difference, maybe there's a reason it has no list of ingredients on the bottle because it sure smells and feels like plain old dish soap and water. I've used Shoe Stretch before only to find out I'd paid someone fifteen dollars a gallon to pre-mix alcohol and water for me and I've questioned whether the Pro-Carve solution is a pre-mixed potion of common household products. If someone knows what it's actually made of it would be interesting to find out, but the fact that it has no list of ingredients even for medical purposes is questionable.

[UKRay]

Okay guys - I think I'm almost up to speed on this thing now. I'm going to try to re-cap:

The general opinion is that leather production techniques have changed a lot in the past fifty odd years. So much so, that many of the old ways of preparing leather for handwork are now virtually obsolete. Leather is now softer and easier to work with and it doesn't seem to require the same amount of soaking that old style, harder leathers did. - So far so good!

As I see it, you need to select the type of casing you are going to do based on the job in hand.

If you want to make masks and much moulded things then a good long dunking (possibly in warm water) is important as the leather needs to become really malleable.

If you want to emboss leather then a quick dunk followed by repeated light spraying of water on the surface of the leather will keep it workable.

If you are working on a large project then find a piece of glass or plexiglass to put over your work when you are not actually embossing or carving. This will seal in the moisture. You will still need to spray or sponge water onto the edges to keep them damp.

If you are carving leather then a quick dunk in ordinary water followed by a water spray works fine for most people.

Carving 'solutions' like Pro-Carve are an individual thing. General opinion seems to be that Pro-Carve's main function is keeping fungus away and smelling nice.

But:

Some claim that Pro-Carve improves the finished appearance of their work, others can't see any difference at all.

Some claim that Pro-Carve makes carving easier, others say they don't notice any difference at all.

I guess you will just have to try it for yourself and make your own decision here.

With only one report on Eco-Flo's version of Pro-Carve I don't feel we have enough information to draw any conclusions about this product yet.

Saddle soap in your casing water can be good if used sparingly - too much can cause problems

The leather 'alchemists' will doubtless keep us informed on their progress... I want to find out more about the listerine thing - where can Thymol or Phenol be purchased? Are the 'natural' alternatives like tea tree oil really up to the job?

I guess the biggest thing to come out of this topic is that the old books may need to be changed next time they are re-printed - can someone mention this to Tandy et al please?

[Art]

Hi Ray,

Thymol you can get from a beekeepers supply. Phenol in the amounts you would need can be ordered from the Druggist, Chemist, Pharmacy or whatever, maybe they can order the Thymol too.

Art

Okay guys - I think I'm almost up to speed on this thing now. I'm going to try to re-cap:

The leather 'alchemists' will doubtless keep us informed on their progress... I want to find out more about the listerine thing - where can Thymol or Phenol be purchased? Are the 'natural' alternatives like tea tree oil really up to the job?

I guess the biggest thing to come out of this topic is that the old books may need to be changed next time they are re-printed - can someone mention this to Tandy et al please?

[whinewine]

A]I can see how the baby shampoo would act as a surfactant - but almost any liquid soap would do the same thing - come to that, so would most fabric softeners and they smell nice too (did you get that, Marlon? <grin!>). I may be wrong, but surely a surfactant will make the water more 'slippery' - in other words it will help 'slide' the water between the fibres of the leather and will help to keep it there for a longer period of time -is this what you are trying to achieve?

B]Lexol is a problem substance as far as I am concerned simply because I have never seen it in the UK. Would anything else work as well for those of us who don't have access to it?

C]I fill a sink with warm to hot water and submerge the leather until no more bubbles are rising. I need the leather really wet for molding and when it dries the leather goes hard. This method would not be really suitable for most stamping and carving projects unless you wanted the leather to be stiff for the finished product.

So it seems that the project dictates how you case your leather - anyone got any thoughts on that?

Ray: A 'surfactant' is any substance that breaks the tension of water... it's really a detergent, & most (if not all) 'detergents' are NOT soap. If anyone has developed their own pictures, color slides, b&w film & printed their own pics, they've used Kodak Photo-Flo (or eqivalent). It allows the water to run off the film in sheets, rather than run off in (film spotting) beads, because it breaks the water's surface tension. Just a few drops of Photo-Flo will work. I used to develop my own stuff & I occasionally will use a few drops of what I have left in making up my homemade casing solution.

B] I'm sure any water soluable oil that won't stain veg-tan leather would work in place of lexol.

C] Wet/wet/wet is for items to be molded. For carving and/or stamping, I'll either spray or wipe with a sponge & when the color returns to normal & still feels cool on my cheek, I'll begin carving or stamping.