Today's Little Challenge

[Lobo]

Received a holster order on 02/21/12, acknowledged the order and quoted 5 to 6 weeks for completion, completed and delivered the order on 03/20/12. On 05/11/12 Mr. Customer wrote that the holster had failed after only two days of use, leather had softened to a point of no retention, finish cracking. Asked Mr. Customer to return the holster for inspection and any needed action. On 06/08/12 received the return.

Leather was indeed very soft. Finish was largely gone. Multiple cracks, edges frayed, and interior badly abraded. Distinct odors detected, one a chemical smell and another that reminded me of lanolin-based skin lotions. Wrote to Mr. Customer telling him that the holster had obviously been subjected to some sort of treatment, such as an oily leather care product. Mr. Customer responded that he had gotten some black stains on the holster from his belt, so he had used gasoline on a rag to clean the holster. I explained that my product warranty was limited to failures in normal use due to defects in materials or workmanship, and declined to make a refund.

Customer wrote back that he was offended that I had said that he put anything on the holster when he had not done so, then demanded that I send the holster back so he can photograph it and post negative reviews on-line.

The following is my response:

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For clarification, I do not know that you put anything on the holster (although I do know that you wrote that you applied gasoline to it), but I do know that something has been applied to the leather since it was delivered to you. I have been making leather holsters for 40 years. I know the source of my leather (Hermann Oak Tannery, one of the oldest and most reputable tanneries in North America), I know exactly what products were used in completing and finishing the holster, I know the feel of a finished holster from my shop, and I know the smells. So, whether you applied something to the holster, or whether someone snuck into your house and did it, or the effects of gasoline (regular or unleaded, high or low octane) resulted in the condition of your holster, it all amounts to the same thing, and that is damage completely beyond my control and completely outside of my product warranty.

Your holster is the Enhanced Pancake model, a design that has been featured in two national magazines and in a book on armed self defense by a well known authority. I have used the same holster model, made and finished in the same manner, for over two years and it remains in nearly perfect condition. I have delivered over 1,000 of that same model to customers in all 50 states and several foreign countries over the past two years, and customer feedback has been overwhelmingly positive.

You would not be the first person to attempt to obtain a refund for an item that has been damaged, either negligently or intentionally. You would also not be the first person to use an implied threat of negative on-line reviewing as a means of extorting a manufacturer. I have been around long enough that very few things that people do surprise me very much.

I expect that you will do as you see fit, say what you wish to say, and post on-line whatever you want to. You may even convince a few people not to order from Lobo Gun Leather. You might also succeed in making yourself look foolish. That is all up to you.

Best wishes,

Ray

PS: For future reference, gasoline is not recommended for cleaning leather holsters.

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Just another day in the holster business, or am I being unreasonable? Customer claims two days of use, seven weeks after delivery? Possible, I suppose. Customer takes 4 weeks to send it back in after complaining? Possible, I suppose. Customer admits to using gasoline to clean the holster, demands a refund, and threatens negative reviews? I would have thought this unlikely, but I now know it to be possible.

Oh, well. Enjoy your day.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Lobo

[katsass]

Well Ray, I think that one takes the cake! I've had a few 'difficult' customers, but never anything like that. Mike

[Mudruck]

Just another day in the holster business, or am I being unreasonable? Customer claims two days of use, seven weeks after delivery? Possible, I suppose. Customer takes 4 weeks to send it back in after complaining? Possible, I suppose. Customer admits to using gasoline to clean the holster, demands a refund, and threatens negative reviews? I would have thought this unlikely, but I now know it to be possible.

Oh, well. Enjoy your day.

Unreasonable? lol, umm..... no. Gasoline to clean it? Yikes, that isn't going to buff out. Yea, I think the warranty has been voided at that point!

[Shooter McGavin]

All in a days work Ray

I did enjoy reading your reply!

[scc]

did you send the old gased up holster to him ? :brainbleach:

[TwinOaks]

That's certainly quite a bit beyond any issues I've had to deal with. I think you handled it just fine; you were polite and professional, yet firm in your position......nothing wrong with that.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[Big O]

Wow.

I don't know if I'd be able to resist telling him that this is a common issue, and that the "damage" can be reversed by repeating the "cleaning" process while turning the holster slowly over an open flame.......

[mdmorgan]

Some people's kids.

[kwelna]

Stupid as stupid does...........I used to be amazed at depth of idiosy displayed by others. Just watch Cable TV and see them star on thier shows!! Now at 53 I expect it. Alas the world is what it is. Unfortunatluy, you do need to return the holster, he did pay for it and is the owner. What he does with it is out of your hands. Thankfully you have a great reputation and I rather doubt that anything he can do will impact your business.

[chiefjason]

I had thought about posting something about not being able to please everybody myself. The customer is not always right, sometimes they are down right stupid.

I'm way new to the process of making and selling holsters. I've been selling kydex beltslide holsters on ebay. Yeah, it's like a yard sale but you gotta start somewhere. Well, all the reviews from there and a gun board I frequent have been great. Everybody loves the holsters. Heck, I'm wearing one now. So a couple days ago a guy posts some feedback on ebay. The feedback is, "Ok for the money but won't last long having single thickness leather belt loops". Dude! Seriously?! All hybrid holsters are one layer of leather and one layer of Kydex. And it's a layer of 8-9oz Hermann Oak at that. I left a comment that he needed to contact me if he had a problem. But he listed it as positive so there was not much I could do. Some people. A part of me wants to go hang one on the kids swingset and see if it will hold my weight hanging from it. I think it will be close. So unless someone drags him around by his holster, I doubt I'll hear from him.

[Sylvia]

Wow.

I don't know if I'd be able to resist telling him that this is a common issue, and that the "damage" can be reversed by repeating the "cleaning" process while turning the holster slowly over an open flame.......

No... the proper way to repeat this cleaning is to boil it in gasoline over an open flame. *Kaboom!* (no more holster or ignorant customer)

***Please do not try this at home... this was only for humor purposes!***

[mdmorgan]

I had thought about posting something about not being able to please everybody myself. The customer is not always right, sometimes they are down right stupid.

I'm way new to the process of making and selling holsters. I've been selling kydex beltslide holsters on ebay. Yeah, it's like a yard sale but you gotta start somewhere. Well, all the reviews from there and a gun board I frequent have been great. Everybody loves the holsters. Heck, I'm wearing one now. So a couple days ago a guy posts some feedback on ebay. The feedback is, "Ok for the money but won't last long having single thickness leather belt loops". Dude! Seriously?! All hybrid holsters are one layer of leather and one layer of Kydex. And it's a layer of 8-9oz Hermann Oak at that. I left a comment that he needed to contact me if he had a problem. But he listed it as positive so there was not much I could do. Some people. A part of me wants to go hang one on the kids swingset and see if it will hold my weight hanging from it. I think it will be close. So unless someone drags him around by his holster, I doubt I'll hear from him.

Not ALL hybrid holsters. I make them like this. I don't like hardware

[chiefjason]

Not ALL hybrid holsters. I make them like this. I don't like hardware

I like it, but a double layered beltslide would just be a holster. No need for kydex. Funny thing is, I offered an all leather beltslide made from 2 layers of 8-9. Maybe he should have paid the extra money an bought that. FWIW, I've been kicking around doing an all leather tuckable like that and just molding it like a normal holster. It's on my to do list. Speaking of hardware, I have figured out how to make some nice leather loops for the tuckables. I'm just waiting on the correct hardware to finish them off.