Juki Lu 562

[Uwe]

.... Using a small weight at the top and larger in the bobbin... Why do ppl do this?? Why not use the same size thread both ways? Does using a thicker weight on the bottom make a stronger stitch or something??

Usually it's the other way around, larger thread in the top (needle), one size smaller thread in the bobbin. This is done because the bobbin thread path starts freaking out before the upper path does (things are just way tighter down there). You generally can get away with larger thread in the top path than in the bottom. I've never heard of somebody purposely using large thread in the bobbin and small thread in the needle, that's just backwards and doesn't make sense, really.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Uwe

[SARK9]

Here's a quick visual comparison of the popular bobbin sizes. The LU-562 has the *G* style, the 206RB the *M* style, and the LU-563 the *U* style. As Uwe says, the bobbin is not the only thing to consider, but for $700 I would certainly try to get what I wanted.

-DC

Bobbin Style Guide - PDF

[Uwe]

Doing the math on cylinder volumes for bobbins, the U-style bobbin has, somewhat surprisingly to me, more than twice the volume of the G style bobbin (.5 vs .227 cubic inches). It doesn't look that much bigger to me visually. Alas, the U-style bobbin should hold about twice the amount of thread (even if you subtract the same size center hole). Dang, I need an Adler 167/267 after all!

[TinkerTailor]

Usually it's the other way around, larger thread in the top (needle), one size smaller thread in the bobbin. This is done because the bobbin thread path starts freaking out before the upper path does (things are just way tighter down there). You generally can get away with larger thread in the top path than in the bottom. I've never heard of somebody purposely using large thread in the bobbin and small thread in the needle, that's just backwards and doesn't make sense, really.

Disclaimer: Do not try this at home....

On an aside, one time i was sewing some canvas tool rolls with leather accents on a 1910 white rotary treadle machine and i had the idea to thread the machine with 2 different colors of thread at the same time........top and bottom. I spooled both black and red guterman topstitch thread on the bobbin at the same time and ran both through the thread paths and both through one needle and the same eye. Backed off the tension some and it sewed awesome. With 2 guterman topstitch threads on it the bobbin lasted about 2 feet of sewing.........

I am really not sure what was going on under that needle plate (or in my head), but it worked....Wish i had a photo of the finished stitch, Project is long sold however. Maybe i will try it again just for fun...

[TinkerTailor]

Do not be fooled, you WILL waste material on mistakes and empty bobbins. Accept that now and it will help keep you from throwing things when you make a mistake and mess up something you have alot of time and money into. This is part of learning. We all have done it.

Couple things that will help keep the mistake cost down are:

1)Do a test run of every operation on scrap. Make sure the products/techniques/tools/machines you use will give the outcome you want on scrap. Then do it to the real thing. Once you have some experience, you can start skipping this step, but you will still get bit once in a while.

2)Be very careful of changing a design half way through. It can lead to many headaches. Mismatched dye, Unburnishable edges, impossible to reach rivets, etc. In a lot of cases, remaking is easier than fixing/changing if you factor in both material and your time.

If you run out of bobbin in the middle, leave lots of tail, cut the thread on top and bottom. Refill bobbin, then go back and start again 2-3 holes back from where you started, again leaving a long tail of thread top and bottom. After you are done the machine stitch you can go back, and carefully pull the overlapped stitches out until the top looks like you never stopped, then use hand stitching needles to pass the threads into the space between the layers of the material and tie knots there. The goal is to snugly tie off the top and bottom of where you stopped, then the top and bottom of the start, and hide it inside the seam. do not tie top to top and bottom to bottom, won't work as well.

Btw, on sneakers the seams are so short, just check the bobbin more often between seams. You won't have the small bobbin issues some guys have.......

[MG513]

I'm showing a Consew 206-RB that seems to be in fair shape at: http://columbus.craigslist.org/art/5262217499.html

Says its missing some parts, and that could be next to nothing, but who knows. It looks pretty complete in the pix. I consider the 206RB to be *very* slightly heavier duty than the Juki (IMO, I have both) and has the larger M style bobbin....the reverse lever on the early 206 would be less convenient for me, but the design also has its fans. I would personally prefer it to an LU-562, especially if you can buy it right. There is another 562 offered nearby also, less money and in a bit better shape.

-DC

The Juki 562 seems like a perfectly good starter machine to me. Don't let the bobbin size alone rule your decision making. The only difference to the Juki 563 really is just the slightly larger bobbin as far as I know (similar to Adler 69 vs. 169). The 563 will run out of bobbin thread, too, just a little later. Whether you change bobbins four or five times during a project is not a huge deal to me.

I owned a Juki 562 for all of one day, when I was trying to sell my Consew 225 about a year ago. I had taken the Juki 562 in a trade for a Singer 29. The lady who came to look at my then-for-sale Consew 225 offered me considerably more for the Juki 562 which needed some adjusting, so I kept the Consew.

Do not be fooled, you WILL waste material on mistakes and empty bobbins. Accept that now and it will help keep you from throwing things when you make a mistake and mess up something you have alot of time and money into. This is part of learning. We all have done it.

Couple things that will help keep the mistake cost down are:

1)Do a test run of every operation on scrap. Make sure the products/techniques/tools/machines you use will give the outcome you want on scrap. Then do it to the real thing. Once you have some experience, you can start skipping this step, but you will still get bit once in a while.

2)Be very careful of changing a design half way through. It can lead to many headaches. Mismatched dye, Unburnishable edges, impossible to reach rivets, etc. In a lot of cases, remaking is easier than fixing/changing if you factor in both material and your time.

If you run out of bobbin in the middle, leave lots of tail, cut the thread on top and bottom. Refill bobbin, then go back and start again 2-3 holes back from where you started, again leaving a long tail of thread top and bottom. After you are done the machine stitch you can go back, and carefully pull the overlapped stitches out until the top looks like you never stopped, then use hand stitching needles to pass the threads into the space between the layers of the material and tie knots there. The goal is to snugly tie off the top and bottom of where you stopped, then the top and bottom of the start, and hide it inside the seam. do not tie top to top and bottom to bottom, won't work as well.

Btw, on sneakers the seams are so short, just check the bobbin more often between seams. You won't have the small bobbin issues some guys have.......

Well first I want today that I love all of you, like in a brother sister kind of way. Now that that's over, @Sark9 I'm not in a financial or knowledgable situation to buy a machine that's not practically ready to run. I did contact the guy for that Ddl 8700 though, I love that price lol. But my question to you is why is this newer Juki so much cheaper then the consew and 562? Can the Ddl handle at least 5-6 oz of leather (and eventually stingray too)? This was actually the first machine I started looking at a year ago because a popular sneaker artisan used this before he moved on to a post bed, he had a Ddl 8700-7 though. (Also thanks for that visual comparison and guide!)

@Uwe, thanks for that. As a person whose never sewn before this can be quite overwhelming. $700 is a lot of money (to me) so I just want to make sure I'm not putting money into a machine that would be obsolete. If I could get this guy down to $600 would that be a better deal, and would u recommend the 562 over the Ddl 8700?

@TinkerTailor thanks for that explanation. It probably didn't make sense because I asked wrong lol I've never sewn before. I just knew that there were 2 different size threads being used at once and I was wondering why. Also thanks so much for the run list on how to keep mistakes down, and telling me how to fix the I ran out of bobbin thread mistake. I'm sure this is gonna come in handy I appreciate everybody very much!!

Last but not least does anybody know what size the bobbin is on the Ddl? Is it bigger then the 562? I know we've established how to get around this issue but considering this guy is selling a barely used one for 450 I'm really starting to lean that way. I do know know a Juki is a good machine I'd just appreciate a little reassurance from ppl who know what they're doing, and in regards to what I will be using the machine for.

[Uwe]

The DDL8700 and the Juki 562 class of machines may look superficially similar, but they're VERY different machines. That's mainly because the DDL has only bottom feed (the needle and upper foot don't help to move the material) and is mainly designed to be FAST. The Juki 562 has triple (aka Unison=Bottom+Needle+Upper) feed and is built for accurately moving multiple layers of heavy material, but not necessarily fast. You'll find DDL 8700 class machines at your local dry cleaner to repair pants, shirts, dresses etc. The DDL 8700 is like a racehorse and the Juki 562 is the horse that pulls the Budweiser wagon. Neither will do particularly well in the other's role.

[MG513]

The DDL8700 and the Juki 562 class of machines may look superficially similar, but they're VERY different machines. That's mainly because the DDL has only bottom feed (the needle and upper foot don't help to move the material) and is mainly designed to be FAST. The Juki 562 has triple (aka Unison=Bottom+Needle+Upper) feed and is built for accurately moving multiple layers of heavy material, but not necessarily fast. You'll find DDL 8700 class machines at your local dry cleaner to repair pants, shirts, dresses etc. The DDL 8700 is like a racehorse and the Juki 562 is the horse that pulls the Budweiser wagon. Neither will do particularly well in the other's role.

Hmmm. Well I have read that most leather workers do not want a machine that goes fast anyway. So I guess I'm back to the 562. I know that I would like to be able to comfortably sew 5/6 oz veg tan leather and also stingray, and I know a machine built for speed is not gonna do well with either of those, especially stingray. This 562 at least has a servo motor that I can set speed at so that's great, so I don't need quick, I'd rather have the accuracy.

So what should I be looking for when I test this 562? I've read one place to check and see if it reverses in the same place, anything else?

[Uwe]

That 562 does not have reverse. Don't expect the machine to be perfectly adjusted, but it should be able to make stitches. Things should turn smoothly without binding when you turn the wheel by hand. I'd look for signs of abuse or excessive wear - like feed dog or needle plate that shows major battle scar from the needle hitting them when it shouldn't. Are things loose that shouldn't be? ( e.g. can you wiggle the needle bar by hand or is it firm?) Is the timing belt inside clean or worn? The picture in the CL ad looks reasonable good, actually. Most wear parts can be replaced and are not too expensive for this machine. Watch my Consew 225 Hook Adjustment video on youtube (https://youtu.be/1wNBPX8i524). The Juki 562 is nearly identical and you'll probably need to do some of the things I do in that video to make it work really well. Having a sewing machine tech do those things for you will get expensive quickly. The sooner you get comfortable working on the machine yourself, the better.

[MG513]

That 562 does not have reverse. Don't expect the machine to be perfectly adjusted, but it should be able to make stitches. Things should turn smoothly without binding when you turn the wheel by hand. I'd look for signs of abuse or excessive wear - like feed dog or needle plate that shows major battle scar from the needle hitting them when it shouldn't. Are things loose that shouldn't be? ( e.g. can you wiggle the needle bar by hand or is it firm?) Is the timing belt inside clean or worn? The picture in the CL ad looks reasonable good, actually. Most wear parts can be replaced and are not too expensive for this machine. Watch my Consew 225 Hook Adjustment video on youtube (https://youtu.be/1wNBPX8i524). The Juki 562 is nearly identical and you'll probably need to do some of the things I do in that video to make it work really well. Having a sewing machine tech do those things for you will get expensive quickly. The sooner you get comfortable working on the machine yourself, the better.

Wow. Didn't know this didn't have reverse! Thanks for that! I guess that's not a deal breaker I could always flip the material around. Ok I will be sure to ask those questions. And your right I will need to get comfortable with the machine myself.

On the feed dogs I wanted to ask, will that or the leather foot mark leather?? I will also be using garment leathers like lamb skin and pig skin to line the sneakers with... It won't tear it up will it? I'm about to watch those videos now...