Turned Down An Order

[George B]

Long story short...

Customer wants a western rig and 2 CCW holsters, one for a Colt SAA clone.

I've talked to him face to face once and on the phone twice and still do not have any idea exactly what he wants. Started John Wayne and now it's Clint Eastwood, I think.

He informed me last night that he wants pics sent to him so he can "proof it" as I go. Say What?

I don't have the time to hold his hand through the entire process as I have other gun leather items to make, a saddle to build and another to restore.

Am I just being stupid and turning down money for the wrong reasons?

Has any one else dealt with a customer like this? And better yet, how did it turn out at the end?

I did leave it open kind of, I told him if he could get me some pics of what he was after I could build it.

Thanks for any advice on this one.

George

[stelmackr]

<<<snip>>>

Am I just being stupid and turning down money for the wrong reasons?

Has any one else dealt with a customer like this? And better yet, how did it turn out at the end?

I did leave it open kind of, I told him if he could get me some pics of what he was after I could build it.

Thanks for any advice on this one.

George

The only project that was ever returned to me was from a customer that acted like yours. I now have turned down a few customers that started the same line of communication. They seem more interested and confused with the process and product. I had to overcome the overwhelming need to satisfy everyone. It is getting easier to turn away a potential customer, but it is done with tact and respect. That lets me sleep at night.

Bob Stelmack

[bison]

I have had good and bad experiences with this type of client. What I do now is to hold their hand through the design process, provide pics, etc, then, once the design is complete, they sign an approval form and I make the item...no more changes. Since I have been doing that I haven't had any problems with clients not being happy with it,since they are somewhat invested in it and see just how much effort goes into creating a custom piece. but there are still times you just have to say no. I usually put it on me...I'm probably not the best person for this, but I will give them some names if they would like...that sort of thing. Doesn't cost me anything to do that and they don't feel like I've been rude. Good luck.Dave

[katsass]

I think you did the right thing. A customer that wants something that he is not totally sure about, but insists on being able to micro manage the process of design and construction, is one that will never be satisfied. That picture that sits in his mind's eye will constantly shift, and you will never be able to anchor it down. Good call, in my opinion. Mike

[Luke Hatley]

Just say NO........this will save you from a lot of problems...

[Sylvia]

I would be wary of a customer like that... especially a stranger. I think you made a good call.

[rickybobby]

My reaction to that kind of micro management is "they need to build it themselves or let someone with a crystal ball help them"

Send them down the road!

[bluesman1951]

Walk away no way you are going to ever be on the same page with this guy . I just would not touch this project sounds like a soul sucking time waster with out end . My advice is RUN !!!!

Long story short...

Customer wants a western rig and 2 CCW holsters, one for a Colt SAA clone.

I've talked to him face to face once and on the phone twice and still do not have any idea exactly what he wants. Started John Wayne and now it's Clint Eastwood, I think.

He informed me last night that he wants pics sent to him so he can "proof it" as I go. Say What?

I don't have the time to hold his hand through the entire process as I have other gun leather items to make, a saddle to build and another to restore.

Am I just being stupid and turning down money for the wrong reasons?

Has any one else dealt with a customer like this? And better yet, how did it turn out at the end?

I did leave it open kind of, I told him if he could get me some pics of what he was after I could build it.

Thanks for any advice on this one.

George

[hidepounder]

I agree with everyone else......let this one go. A customer comes to you for your expertise. If they feel it's necessary to coach you through the process you will never satisfy them because they have no respect for what you have to offer. Sometimes "passing" will save you time and money!!

Bobby

[mlapaglia]

The only way I would do a job like this is by the hour with a weekly advance payment for the next weeks work. People like this will never be happy. The best thing is what you did. say no. A place I worked had a policy, "Fire your worst customer". It made sense. People like that cost you more than you make.

Ya did good.

[TwinOaks]

Ditto the advice to let it go.

However, there's another side to turning down a job/order -

Last weekend I had potential customer contact me about a holster. He's going to take a borrowed S&W mod. 60 (snubbie .357) to Alaska as a bear gun, and wear it ON HIS WADERS while fly fishing. It's currently carried in a nylon one-size-fits-most holster with the little nylon strap. I told him that sure I could make a holster, but he'd be better off modifying the one he has, then told him how to do it. There's nothing difficult about making a suitable holster for a mod. 60.....but it would be an unnecessary cost for a gun he wouldn't be keeping.

A couple of things occurred to me as problems with the job - liability for a lost gun if the holster got drenched and lost all retention ability, and liability for making the holster so secure he couldn't get to it IF he needed to. Of course, I didn't say all of that to the customer. I just plain out did not want the job, but I gave the customer a really good reason for HIM to decide not to get it. We talked fly fishing a few minutes and he stated that he'd just use what he has (with modifications), and use the money he would have spent on holster for more fly gear. In the end, we were both happy, and I have no doubt that he'll be back in touch to get a holster when he buys his own gun. I guess the moral is to tactfully turn down jobs (if at all possible) without turning down the customer.

[Ken Nelson]

I agree with everyone else......let this one go. A customer comes to you for your expertise. If they feel it's necessary to coach you through the process you will never satisfy them because they have no respect for what you have to offer. Sometimes "passing" will save you time and money!!

Bobby

This post is so well stated, I wish I had written it. You, sir have said it better than anyone I have ever heard respond to this situation, PERIOD. Thank you very much. Ken

[shtoink]

Looks like a verdict has been reached...

Also, I am agreement with all that has been said, but that should have been obvious.

[Chief31794]

I think it's pretty much a concensus. I do custom work so I expect some questions like, can I have this carved or that, can I have a different color, could you do this to it, can you stitch it instead of lacing or vice versa. You have to tolerate that to some extent but I won't agree to do anything I'm not comfortable with and then once the design is set, that's it and always get your money up front.

Pretty much agree, leave streaks in the parking lot on this one.

Ken

[George B]

Thanks to All that responded, now I don't feel so stupid.

To update. He called again and just cannot understand why I don't want to do his order.

I put it to him as simply as I could. "Without a clear idea of what he wants I cannot make it and right now I am so busy I do not have time to do research or a lot of face to face time with him unless he wants to pay me for the time."

Now he wants "Billy The Kid", even though there is not a clear consensus on exactly what the rig he used looked like, so far I have found 3 that all claim to be exact and all 3 are different.

I left it at, "you bring me a pic of what you want, we'll both sign it, no changes, pay up front and no refunds if you change your mind".

Haven't heard anything since.

[robertmeco]

Good for you I think you made the right choice

[dirtclod]

I gave a order back to guy earlier this year. He had wrecked his motorcycle and messed the saddle bags up. Another guy brought them by for him and when i talked to him on the phone it was the price is to high then it was their going to be perfect right. Though to myself nothing i do is going to make him happy so i took them back to the guy that brought them. I needed the money but not the headache !

Edited August 3, 2012 by dirtclod

[Lobo]

My primary business is holsters (79% of all orders), belts and pouches (21%). I offer 11 holster designs, with or without 4 common options, in 4 finish colors, for 138 different handguns, in both left-hand and right-hand versions. This results in over 48,000 possible variations. I still receive requests for others almost daily.

I think that somewhere out there is a place called the "Holster Genius Academy" turning out a new crop of graduates every week or so, every one of them convinced that he has the "perfect holster" plan in his head, all he needs is someone to make it for him.

Custom work and special orders require a huge amount of time, as compared to production of standard products to established patterns. Having introduced 3 unique holster designs over the past 4 years I can tell you that it can take months of design work, pattern production, prototype production, prototype testing, adjustment of patterns, etc, before the design is ready to go into production. I have spent between 6 months and a year on each new product development.

A single custom order might take 5, 10, 15, or 20 hours to complete. For contrast, producing standard products to established patterns, and working in batches of 10 to 12 pieces at a time at each stage of production (cutting, assembly, stitching, edges, dyes, finishes, hardware), I average about 47 minutes per completed product.

The customer demanding control over design and production at every step of the project needs to understand that (1) all time, materials, and shop supplies must be paid for, (2) the moment that the money runs out his project comes to a halt at that point, and (3) since the design is HIS the results belong to HIM, not the producer.

Most of us have had potential customers wanting a convertible OWB/IWB with adjustable cant and ride height, with built-in triple magazine pouch, handcuff case, tactical light carrier, and iPod or MP3 player, all of which is expected to provide comfortable and discreet concealed carry with Speedo's and undershirt. For those that accept such orders I suggest that the customer will never remember that it was his lousy idea, but he will always remember that the holster maker failed miserably at making his dream a reality.

This business provides plenty of opportunities to just say "NO".

Best regards.

[talon]

I think you made the right choice, I had a problem with a customer about a year ago. He emailed me detailed drawings of what he wanted, then he actually told me that since he had shown me the drawings, if I ever produced it on a larger scale he expected royalties! Seriously? The best part is that his "unique" design had been on the market years prior, and while produced by a number of custom holster shops, never succeeded because of comfort issues.....

I didn't even charge the guy a fair price because I was new and looking to get any bit of business I could. I would certainly stay clear of people like this. A customer who really values what you do will understand that you know a lot about holsters and will seek your advice and judgement.

Good Luck!

[DoubleC]

I have one I wish I'd turned down. Someone I know and like that wanted a dog collar. With pyramid spots. And all silver colored hardware which is ok. Except I've never done spots. And he wanted it in black which I don't do because I had a really bad experience with USMC once. Anyway I ordered the spots, buckle, black oil dye (worked damn good) dee rings, edge kote and intended to back so the metal wouldn't touch the dog. But I didn't have any black so he told me to order it and I did. I charged him a whopping 10 bucks for my time but I'm having trouble getting the money for the supplies now and he's completely forgotten I ordered the pig lining just for him. And I got it wholesale and a great deal on it but I had to pay for shipping on all this stuff and I'm still just trying to get 20 bucks from him because I got the wrong Chicago screws and wrong size Ds. I GAVE him the leather for the strap. I don't have the money to order the rest of that for him. I'm not charging him for my mistakes, or the full price for a 10 pk of Ds or Chicago screws, or the whole pig I ordered but come on, 30 bucks for a lined 1 & 1/2 inch collar with spots? I've accepted I'll end up make 8cents an hour for this, LOL but I WANT my 8 cents which I won't get until he pays for the supplies. And he wants a matching belt. It will NOT be 30 bucks for setting all the spots I'll need for that. He's a sweet kid that just found out he has a baby on the way so how in the hell do you strong arm someone like that? I thought it would be good advertising locally but I wish I'd run an ad instead :-)

I'll just stay here while you all like up to slap my forehead with your palm. Cheryl

[Rayban]

I've learned to pass on projects that take me away from those things I do regularly and efficiently......as kindly as I can I let them know I just don't have time for experimentation projects.

Usually I get a "I understand, thank you"...but when I get no reply, it's safe to assume I've POd someone.

[Cyberthrasher]

.....it's safe to assume I've POd someone.

That's why I've learned to live my life under that assumption. That way I'm never disappointed

My customers are important to me and I treat every one of them like they're the most important job I have, but I won't let any of them treat me like I should be desperate for their business.

[DoubleC]

I have a hard time with no, and I'll finish the collar, even if I have to do it on my own money. I've been told time and again get at least 1/2 up front, and if I can't learn to do that, then I guess it was just a 'stupid tax' I think it's called on here :-) I'll make it a baby present and try and do it different the next time. I got totally stiffed on another order so I shouldn't feel so bad about this, got 1/3 :-)

[Cyberthrasher]

Never take knife to leather until you have at least half of your expected payment in hand. You'll only lose money that way with all the people who are interested until they find out how much it costs.

[DoubleC]

I know Allen, and he's really excited about the collar but is totally oblivious when I tell him I need the rest of his payment to order the D rings and Chicago screws. He said last Weds. 'I should have at least $10.00 by the end of the night,' but I couldn't stand being there that long. He dropped off the collar after taking it home to try it for fit on his dog to a friend of mine with the invoice I showed him of what things had cost so far, but not a dime did he give her. Like I said, considering it a stupid tax and I'll just the collar on my dog if I don't have anymore money from him by Weds. I'm not going to beg him for enough money to finish the project, I'll give him the 10 back he gave me though my friend (she works at a store he comes in every day) and Skadi will have a nice, new collar much nicer than the one I made her before. Sometimes you just have to learn these things yourself before you believe someone isn't going to take you serious. When the 10 bucks shows up with no collar he'll realize I'm serious then but it will be too late.