Miett Report post Posted August 25, 2012 Hello, I wonder if someone might have a suggestion for a problem I'm having with my Chandler 406RB - 1 (which I've been told is also a lot like one of the Consew models?). I'm pretty new to leather sewing machines, so if I'm making a stupid mistake, please let me know! I'm always glad for constructive criticism! I think I know what the problem is... just not how to fix it. When I take off the throat plate (?) I can see the hook interacting with the upper thread. Most often, the point of the hook snags part of the thread, causing it to fray. Sometimes it misses the thread altogether, and now it's started occasionally just snapping it cleanly in half. It just seems like the needle is not making a big enough loop for the hook to catch it without issues. What I've done so far: I've checked the timing, and according to everything I've read, it should be good. The hook is extremely close to the needle, too. I seem to have the tension balanced properly, everything has been rethreaded multiple times to make certain it's right, the thread has been pulled so it's snug in between the two plates at the tension knob (which I know can be an issue. I've run my finger over the end of the hook, and though it's sharp, I can't feel any burrs. I'd like to take it off to make sure, but I'm not sure how to go about that. Does anyone have any suggestions? In general, is there a way to cause the needle to make bigger loops? Thanks in advance for the advice! I really appreciate it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ferg Report post Posted August 25, 2012 Something to check knowing it may not have anything to do with your problem. You didn't say what size thread you are using. These machines prefer 138 and lower. They will sew with 207 but not generally very well. Double check needle size in regards to thread size. Toledo Industrial Machine has a chart for needle to thread size. ferg 1345863266[/url]' post='261695']Hello, I wonder if someone might have a suggestion for a problem I'm having with my Chandler 406RB - 1 (which I've been told is also a lot like one of the Consew models?). I'm pretty new to leather sewing machines, so if I'm making a stupid mistake, please let me know! I'm always glad for constructive criticism! I think I know what the problem is... just not how to fix it. When I take off the throat plate (?) I can see the hook interacting with the upper thread. Most often, the point of the hook snags part of the thread, causing it to fray. Sometimes it misses the thread altogether, and now it's started occasionally just snapping it cleanly in half. It just seems like the needle is not making a big enough loop for the hook to catch it without issues. What I've done so far: I've checked the timing, and according to everything I've read, it should be good. The hook is extremely close to the needle, too. I seem to have the tension balanced properly, everything has been rethreaded multiple times to make certain it's right, the thread has been pulled so it's snug in between the two plates at the tension knob (which I know can be an issue. I've run my finger over the end of the hook, and though it's sharp, I can't feel any burrs. I'd like to take it off to make sure, but I'm not sure how to go about that. Does anyone have any suggestions? In general, is there a way to cause the needle to make bigger loops? Thanks in advance for the advice! I really appreciate it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted August 25, 2012 Poor loop formation can be caused by early timing, coupled with a relocated needlebar to compensate. The hook passes the eye at a good height, but the shuttle driver may not be in the best position relative to the needle. To explain this mumbo-jumbo, with the throat plate off and the needle threaded, rotate the wheel until the hook is centered above the eye of the needle. Observe the bottom of the eye of the needle and bottom of the loop that is formed/forming. If the bottom of the eye is not in contact with the shuttle driver, the loop is suspended in thin air. There should be a tapered cut in the top of the shuttle driver, on the left side. This is a thread guide that pushes up on the thread coming out of the eye. Your goal is to reposition the height of the needle so that the bottom of the eye is on the way up, about 1/8 inch, as the point passes by the cutout over the eye and the bottom of the looping thread is just making contact with the cutout are in the shuttle driver. Once you find this happy place, tighten the needle bar and shuttle driver as much as possible. The next thing to adjust is the check spring. Too much travel, or too much spring tension causes the loop to dissolve as it is forming. That spring should move far enough to keep the top thread from forming loose loops on top, but not so far as to ruin the loop at the eye, as the hook meets it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miett Report post Posted August 25, 2012 Thank you both! I'm using 207 thread, so I'll bump that down to 138 just in case. I wanted to try ordering some Schmetz needles anyway, so I'll just lower the size by one step and get some thread to go with it. I'm also going to take off the throat plate and check the timing with the shuttle driver, like Wizcrafts suggested. Thanks for the tip - timing has been a bit of a mystery to me! Fingers crossed that one of those fix the problem! It's getting really old having to stop several times to pick out stitches and restart on every single wallet I make. *sigh* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwinOaks Report post Posted August 25, 2012 Ummm, does that type of needle system have a scarfed area? (I'm only really familiar with the Boss) If so, do you have the needle positioned correctly? The first time I put a needle in the Boss, I reversed it and couldn't get a stitch for anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miett Report post Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) Ummm, does that type of needle system have a scarfed area? (I'm only really familiar with the Boss) If so, do you have the needle positioned correctly? The first time I put a needle in the Boss, I reversed it and couldn't get a stitch for anything. The scarfed area is the dip on one side of the needle, right? If so, yes. The dip is positioned so the hook passes over it on that side, and the side of the needle with the long groove is facing away from the body of the machine. I believe that's right? I've managed to get it to stitch with the needle positioned like that in the past... Well, I tried fixing the timing, and succeeded in screwing it up so badly it won't pick up a single stitch now, and snaps or frays the upper thread within a couple inches. I'm really not sure what I've done wrong. I'm following everything I've been told, but I have to be missing something crucial. I'm hand winding the wheel toward myself, letting the needle drop to its lowest point, then just as it starts to rise, the hook passes through the dip on that side of the needle, so close to the needle itself it practically touches it. Can anyone see anything obvious that I've missed? Edited August 26, 2012 by Miett Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted August 27, 2012 The scarfed area is the dip on one side of the needle, right? If so, yes. The dip is positioned so the hook passes over it on that side, and the side of the needle with the long groove is facing away from the body of the machine. I believe that's right? I've managed to get it to stitch with the needle positioned like that in the past... Well, I tried fixing the timing, and succeeded in screwing it up so badly it won't pick up a single stitch now, and snaps or frays the upper thread within a couple inches. I'm really not sure what I've done wrong. I'm following everything I've been told, but I have to be missing something crucial. I'm hand winding the wheel toward myself, letting the needle drop to its lowest point, then just as it starts to rise, the hook passes through the dip on that side of the needle, so close to the needle itself it practically touches it. Can anyone see anything obvious that I've missed? Cut your losses and take the head to Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines for repairs and timing adjustments. Their address and phones are: 3631 Marine Rd, Toledo, OH 43609. Phone: 419-380-8540 in Toledo, or Toll Free at 866-362-7397 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miett Report post Posted August 27, 2012 Cut your losses and take the head to Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines for repairs and timing adjustments. Their address and phones are: 3631 Marine Rd, Toledo, OH 43609. Phone: 419-380-8540 in Toledo, or Toll Free at 866-362-7397 Thanks - I actually just wrote them, and will probably take the machine up there as soon as I can afford the trip. I appreciate the help anyway! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miett Report post Posted September 1, 2012 Update: Bob from Toledo Industrial was actually able to diagnose and walk me through fixing the problem over the phone. Many thanks to him for his patience and knowledge! Everything's been running smoothly since then. Whew! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Learning Leather Report post Posted November 23, 2014 I am having EXACTLY the same problem that you were having with the Chandler and the top thread fraying when sewing through leather. Would it be worth a call to Bob @ Toledo or do you know what I need to do? thnx. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
