Lining Holsters And Gun Belts

[Johnny Valentine]

Hey guys,

I'm kind of a young buck and new to these parts. Been interested in leather work for a long time, but just now getting started. I have a background in woodworking, so I know my way around the shop and can use tools without loosing any appendages. For my birthday I'm getting a Ruger New Vaquero in .357 mag, and of course I need a good holster and cartridge belt to go boot. Now to the nitty-gritty, I'm at a quandary as to how to go about lining said rig. Some recommend a soft pigskin or suede, while others insist that none other than good quality cowhide will do, especially to preserve blued steel. Right now I'm leaning towards the cowhide, but my question is what quality of cowhide is necessary? I want to do it right and use Herman Oak, but this could be cost prohibitive if I have to buy pieces of two different weights, e.g. 5-6 oz and 3-4 oz. What are some thoughts on going with a small side of 4-5 oz and using that for outer and lining? Also, if Herman Oak is so great why don't they offer shoulders, which are said to be the ideal cut for holsters? Sorry if I ramble. Any and all feedback will be appreciated.

Sincerely,

Jason, AKA Johnny Valentine

[renegadelizard]

Hey guys,

I'm kind of a young buck and new to these parts. Been interested in leather work for a long time, but just now getting started. I have a background in woodworking, so I know my way around the shop and can use tools without loosing any appendages. For my birthday I'm getting a Ruger New Vaquero in .357 mag, and of course I need a good holster and cartridge belt to go boot. Now to the nitty-gritty, I'm at a quandary as to how to go about lining said rig. Some recommend a soft pigskin or suede, while others insist that none other than good quality cowhide will do, especially to preserve blued steel. Right now I'm leaning towards the cowhide, but my question is what quality of cowhide is necessary? I want to do it right and use Herman Oak, but this could be cost prohibitive if I have to buy pieces of two different weights, e.g. 5-6 oz and 3-4 oz. What are some thoughts on going with a small side of 4-5 oz and using that for outer and lining? Also, if Herman Oak is so great why don't they offer shoulders, which are said to be the ideal cut for holsters? Sorry if I ramble. Any and all feedback will be appreciated.

Sincerely,

Jason, AKA Johnny Valentine

Jason, 5-6 ounce will be fine. Glue it flesh side to flesh side and it will be a great rig. Springfield leather sells single shoulders for around 30 bucks or so, and the customer service there is unmatched. Give Kevin a call and he will hook you up with everything you need and probably offer you some tips to help you get going in the right direction.

[Chief31794]

X2 on Springfield Leather, they'll sell you what you need and don't require you to buy a whole side or whole shoulder, etc. They do sell Hermann Oak shoulders, sides, bellies, everything but the nose and the tail. The Hermann Oak I get from Kevin is absolutely beautiful. They sell different grades as well. Grade B is beautiful and the Craftsman Grade (which is a lot cheaper) is extremely good. The ladies there that answer the phone are very knowledgeable and can help you decide what you need. Like Jason said 5/6 oz Hermann Oak glued together flesh side to flesh side with Contact Cement is perfect. Most people stitch the entire edge if the holster is lined, that not only assures the lining adherence but also looks very nice.

Welcome to the obsession of Leather Craft,

Chief

Edited August 31, 2012 by Chief31794

[particle]

Just to throw something else out there - you might also consider Wickett & Craig. You can order directly from the tannery, and they will split their tooling sides down to whatever thickness you desire. There is also (at least currently) no minimum order on hides so you can just order 1 or 2 hides at a time if that's all you can afford.

[katsass]

From the old grump; For lining leather on a holster I use 2/3oz veg tanned cowhide, I use it on holsters at times, and more frequently on knife sheaths made for 'collector knives. I also use it to line all of my gunbelts, those, made from 12/13oz saddle skirting. Primarily, however, I use two layers of 4/5oz shoulder leather to make my holsters, I bond the two pieces together on their flesh sides, and use the result just as one would with a single thickness of leather of equivalent weight. This method does require a great deal more stitching, but when molded and finished produces a pretty solid holster. Here's a picture of a pair of matching (as close as I can get) hand stitched holsters made for replica Colt Single Action Army wheelguns (the one on the right has no finish on it yet). The one on the left is a strong side draw, and on the right is a cross-draw. Mike

P.S. I generally use Springfield's "#1 Import Double Shoulders" for holsters. If you are going to carve and/or tool your work, the other mentiond leathers would work better, I just don't do that stuff anymore, and I find that for my kind of work, there is little difference between the import, W&C or Herman Oak leathers - other than price. JMO.

Edited August 31, 2012 by katsass

[Johnny Valentine]

@ Old Grump:

Wow! 12/13 oz seems really thick. Plus lining? Why do you go that thick on your belts? I was planning to use the same 4/5 or 5/6 sandwich as was recommended for holsters. BTW, this will be an old west style cartridge belt. Any particular tips or tricks regarding this style? Also, no one chimed in regarding shoulders vs. sides, and why Herman doesn't seem to sell shoulders. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Johnny Valentine

P.S. Just curious, what kind of Colt replicas do you have/favor? Any thoughts on Ruger's New Vaquero? I know it's technically not a true replica.

[Johnny Valentine]

Also, thanks for the pic of your holsters. Very handsome work. I want to make some Mexican Single Loops similar to those, but with slightly bigger and rounded loops for placement of Texas Star conches. I intend to do a little tooling on the rig, but it will be limited by time (my wedding on 11/17/12) and skill level.

Johnny Valentine

From the old grump; For lining leather on a holster I use 2/3oz veg tanned cowhide, I use it on holsters at times, and more frequently on knife sheaths made for 'collector knives. I also use it to line all of my gunbelts, those, made from 12/13oz saddle skirting. Primarily, however, I use two layers of 4/5oz shoulder leather to make my holsters, I bond the two pieces together on their flesh sides, and use the result just as one would with a single thickness of leather of equivalent weight. This method does require a great deal more stitching, but when molded and finished produces a pretty solid holster. Here's a picture of a pair of matching (as close as I can get) hand stitched holsters made for replica Colt Single Action Army wheelguns (the one on the right has no finish on it yet). The one on the left is a strong side draw, and on the right is a cross-draw. Mike

P.S. I generally use Springfield's "#1 Import Double Shoulders" for holsters. If you are going to carve and/or tool your work, the other mentiond leathers would work better, I just don't do that stuff anymore, and I find that for my kind of work, there is little difference between the import, W&C or Herman Oak leathers - other than price. JMO.

[mlapaglia]

For a gun belt you want at least 1/4" thickness to support the weight. Two pieces of 8/9 (16/18) makes a good 1/4" belt so 2/3 lining of a 12/13 (14/16) is about the same thickness. Now this is talking regular 1.5" width work/dress belt. You need the thickness to support the gun and the mags and your pants.

For a cowboy type gun belt you want to use at least 9/10 for most designs. Belt loops are often done with 3/4 calf.

Supporting all the weight of the gun and its position you need strong belts.

Springfield will sell you shoulders, backs, bends or sides of Herman Oak. The tannery just sells by the side as far as I know but non of us can afford to purchase the minimum # of sides from Herman Oak. At least I cant. Lobo and a few others I am sure could.

Double shoulders are good for holsters and belts for normal size people. Backs are good for belts for us larger folks. Just about anything but the neck area and the belly is good for holsters, belts, sheaths, etc.

Michael

Edited September 1, 2012 by mlapaglia

[katsass]

Jason -- from the grump: 12/13oz is plenty heavy for gunbelts - and with a 2/3oz lining, equivalent to a little more than two layers of 5/6oz. I usually don't line the buckle end nor the bitter end of a belt - for ease of buckling. I also primarily (not always) make tapered belts, rather than the 'ranger' style - again, for ease of use and comfort. For bullet loops I don't go past the center of the back of the belt with loops - they just aren't that easy to get to back there. I try not to exceed 18 loops, 12is 'mo better', unless the customer wants them - there is a lot of weight to a pot-load of .44 or .45 cartridges - even .357's. Shoulder leather seems best for holsters, but backs will do well also. Saddle skirting is generally cut from the back I believe, and I use that for gunbelts - even 'garrison' or trousers gunbelts. Those holster were for a pair of Uberti shooters in .45 Colt, and the New Vaquero is a fine shooter. A friend has one - specially modified for VERY heavy, custom .45 Colt loads. Shoots great.

Here are a couple of pics of a copy of a rig (seen in the book 'Packing Iron'). The original was for a Colt SAA - had to modify a bit to fit the 8 1/2" Ruger Super Redhawk. The belt is 3" wide, lined 12/13oz skirting leather. Mike

.

Edited September 1, 2012 by katsass

[chiefjason]

I just finished my second belt. This one was for me, finally. I wear size 40 pants and initially tried a tandy belt blank from Hobby Lobby. Not only was it too thin, it was too short. So that went to my wife. For me I ordered 5-6 oz Hermann Oak tooling bellies from Springfield. I was not too happy with the thickness of 2 of them back to back. It was close, might have worked, but I did not want to do all that work on something that "might" work. So I did what any self respecting DIY'er would do. I tinkered and improvised. My belt is 2 layers the entire length with the ends skivved, and from just in front of the hips it has a 3rd layer running around the back. I had to skiv the 3rd layer to get it to glue correctly. But it seems to be plenty stiff now. I wore it last night after I finished it and have it on now and I love it.

If you are ordering the bellies they are plenty long enough for belts. If you are ordering leather and expect to make a belt from it you will likely have to talk to someone to get what you want. I entered directions in a web order trying to get the leather cut to make a belt. The leather was cut, but was not nearly long enough on the cut side for a belt my size.

Lined 5-6 oz is what my holster is made of too. Plenty stiff. Works great.

[katsass]

I just finished my second belt. This one was for me, finally. I wear size 40 pants and initially tried a tandy belt blank from Hobby Lobby. Not only was it too thin, it was too short. So that went to my wife. For me I ordered 5-6 oz Hermann Oak tooling bellies from Springfield. I was not too happy with the thickness of 2 of them back to back. It was close, might have worked, but I did not want to do all that work on something that "might" work. So I did what any self respecting DIY'er would do. I tinkered and improvised. My belt is 2 layers the entire length with the ends skivved, and from just in front of the hips it has a 3rd layer running around the back. I had to skiv the 3rd layer to get it to glue correctly. But it seems to be plenty stiff now. I wore it last night after I finished it and have it on now and I love it.

If you are ordering the bellies they are plenty long enough for belts. If you are ordering leather and expect to make a belt from it you will likely have to talk to someone to get what you want. I entered directions in a web order trying to get the leather cut to make a belt. The leather was cut, but was not nearly long enough on the cut side for a belt my size.

Lined 5-6 oz is what my holster is made of too. Plenty stiff. Works great.

Jason, from the grump, you might try a stirrup strip from Springfield for belts. They are 12/13oz and plenty long for belts - until you need more that 72 or so inches to work with. As to bellies,they are (IMO) suitable for making mock-ups, but not much more. Too prone to stretch and sag. Mike.

[chiefjason]

Jason, from the grump, you might try a stirrup strip from Springfield for belts. They are 12/13oz and plenty long for belts - until you need more that 72 or so inches to work with. As to bellies,they are (IMO) suitable for making mock-ups, but not much more. Too prone to stretch and sag. Mike.

I remember you recommending that before, but I already had these on order. And there certainly are some soft spots on them. I ran into a few. Hopefully this one works out well. I'm hoping that layering it helps offset some of that stretch. I'll post a pic later in another thread. FWIW, since it's the second belt I have made it kind of is a mock up. I don't plan on making them with any regularity. Hand stitching a belt is A LOT of work. I know you know that as well. If I make another one I will certainly look into the stirrup strips and I do appreciate the info. I probably should have asked before I ordered. Story of my life. lol