Couple Of Questons From A Ne Guy

[cleanview]

I am from Amarillo Texas. I started making housters for myself last year, and wound up making more than one for most of my handguns. Then I start reading this forumn about 2 months ago and found out how BACKWARDS I was going about the process. I have spent a lot of time reading and learning from this group. An example, yesterday I said "honey you got any mop&glo" of course she said no, so we ran out and got some to try what someone who calls hinself the grump suggested. I have experimented with so mnay things that I have read hear.

Well I am just about to make my first avenger for a bersa 380. I have the pattern ready to go but have been practicing several aspect to make sure that I am ready to get it right. I have been glueing 2 small pieces together and then practicing beveling, stitch lining stiching, the belt hole airbrushing and finishing and so forth. Here are a few questions.

1. When I spay the leather cordovan and then the second black around the edges it usually looks pretty good, but I think that whe I buff them it blends into an almost black all over, Is my assumptio correct, and if so what is the remedy?

2. Most video example are sewn with a machine. When hand stiching, are stch lines on both sides of the leather? If so, it seems like the smallest mistake and the drilled hole would mis the back line.

I appreciate all I have learned form this forumn and any input to my questions. Before to long I will post a picture of some past holsters (ugly yet functional) and the new one.

Brent

[SooperJake]

If you are using a drill press to put in stitching holes, cut the grove on the back after you drill the holes. This way you can cheat the groove if necessary to keep the holes inside the grove. You'll want a groover that protrudes from the end of the handle like a pen, not the "L" shaped kind to do this . I made mine from a nail, but you can buy one. Making mine allowed me to drill a larger hole in it, so it makes a bigger groove, which helps tidy up the back. I didn't use a drill press though, I bought stitching chisels.

Use a ruler on straight runs if your drilled holes are pretty straight

Better would be to pick up a leather working book that shows how to saddle stitch properly ( Al Stohlman Holster book for instance). You put the holes in with an awl, , one at a time, stitch, pierce, stitch, and so on. This method allows you to put the groove in on both sides first, and steer the awl so that it comes out in the back groove. Much practice is needed, and it is time consuming to hand sew, but it is the prettiest when done well.

I just set aside my stitching pony for a machine a few weeks ago. The time savings is tremendous, but it still looks better when done by hand.

Jake

[dickf]

I am from Amarillo Texas. I started making housters for myself last year, and wound up making more than one for most of my handguns. Then I start reading this forumn about 2 months ago and found out how BACKWARDS I was going about the process. I have spent a lot of time reading and learning from this group. An example, yesterday I said "honey you got any mop&glo" of course she said no, so we ran out and got some to try what someone who calls hinself the grump suggested. I have experimented with so mnay things that I have read hear.

Well I am just about to make my first avenger for a bersa 380. I have the pattern ready to go but have been practicing several aspect to make sure that I am ready to get it right. I have been glueing 2 small pieces together and then practicing beveling, stitch lining stiching, the belt hole airbrushing and finishing and so forth. Here are a few questions.

1. When I spay the leather cordovan and then the second black around the edges it usually looks pretty good, but I think that whe I buff them it blends into an almost black all over, Is my assumptio correct, and if so what is the remedy?

2. Most video example are sewn with a machine. When hand stiching, are stch lines on both sides of the leather? If so, it seems like the smallest mistake and the drilled hole would mis the back line.

I appreciate all I have learned form this forumn and any input to my questions. Before to long I will post a picture of some past holsters (ugly yet functional) and the new one.

Brent

Hi Brent. I'll offer this advice...

The Professional (Avenger) type pattern is one that takes a couple iterations to get exactly right. Figuring the ideal distance between the loops and where the front tunnel is located will determine how close and tight the holster rides. I would recommend a pancake for your first, as I feel it will be more forgiving in a few areas.

Mop and Glo is for floors - what you need is an acrylic that is meant to be used as a topcoat for leather. Angelus makes a wonderful product and I don't think you can go wrong with whatever finish you choose (satin, gloss, semi-gloss, etc.). To apply it, all you have to do is dunk the holster in it. Easy enough, right? I've tested the Mop and Glo as well as other chemicals. It's not up to the job that's required for a hard-use holster.

I think airbrushing dye can yield some really great looking results, but you'll not get very much penetration with the dye in the leather. One scratch will show natural leather and is pretty much a done deal. If you're dead-set on airbrushing, perhaps you could dip the pieces in the primary color (cordovan), then airbrush the black on the edges. This way you have a piece of leather that is nearly struck through will color.

Machines are obviously faster at sewing it up, but every holster maker, regardless of tenure, should know how to hand stitch properly. I always kept the grooves for the stitch line on the front panel for the reason you pointed out. I do make a point to either crease or groove a decorative line around the mouth and muzzle end of the holster on both sides. When I hand stitched, I would groove the lines, mark them with an overstitch wheel @ 6 spi, and drill them with the smallest bit I could chuck in a dremel (I think it was a 1/16"). I had to use pliers to pull the needle through the second time around. After the holster was wet and then dried, the holes closed up a little and made for an extremely tight stitch. I never did master the awl method (as opposed to drilling), but it's better than drilling because you're not actually removing material.

Sounds like you're really trying to do your best to practice before you start cutting your pattern, which is great. You'll find that each holster teaches you something new, something you should do next time, and something you should never do again!

Good luck!

[cleanview]

Thanks for the replys. Very good pointers.

What about the first problem I listed? I dye the cordovan then the black around the edges and then when I buff it, it pretty much turns black. Is there an amount of time between coats or time to set before buffing.

I am attempting the avenger on the little bersa basically to get my feet wet at the over all process. My ultimate goal is a cut back version of the avenger for a 1911 that is popular in action shooting.

Thanks again.

[IngleGunLeather]

Thanks for the replys. Very good pointers.

What about the first problem I listed? I dye the cordovan then the black around the edges and then when I buff it, it pretty much turns black. Is there an amount of time between coats or time to set before buffing.

I am attempting the avenger on the little bersa basically to get my feet wet at the over all process. My ultimate goal is a cut back version of the avenger for a 1911 that is popular in action shooting.

Thanks again.

I've only attempted this once and it was a while ago. Forum user "Particle" does this to quite a few of his holsters and I believe he talked about it in one of his videos. I'm looking at the book "Coloring with Eco-Flo" and on page 21 it briefly talks about using a sprayer and two different colors of dyes. All it really says is "Apply an overall base coating leather dye using an aerosol sprayer or airbrush. The more even the base coat the better. Option: Add shading around figures and edges so that some areas are a darker color than the base coat color to emphasize and add interest to the design. Allow dye to dry completely. Buff with a clean soft cloth or piece of sheep wool to remove any pigment from the surface."

Your technique in application sounds right. I'd recommend allowing the dye to dry longer. Maybe overnight? I'd check to see how much rub-off you have with a white cotton T shirt starting at the edge before working inward to the lighter color.

Edited September 11, 2012 by CountryTrash

[mlapaglia]

If Mop-&-Glow is for floors than drills are for wood and metal. There are many different ways to do things and most times no one way is right. Katsass (the grump) is very knowledgeable when it comes to leather work and he is really smart on saddle stitching. Don't discount the mop&glow just because one person does not care for it or one person likes it. Try it yourself and see how it works. I think you will like the mop&glow. Don't forget to dilute it with 50% water. way too many people here use the mop&glow to discount it just because its not for leather.

Learn how to use an awl. It is better than any size drill bit. It's also kind of cool that its old school. It does look great when done right. Better than any machine or drilled stitch line.

As for your first problem how long are you letting it dry between the two colors and before the buffing?

Edited September 11, 2012 by mlapaglia

[HellfireJack]

I've experimented with Mop -n- Glo and the only issue I remember was to make sure to buy unscented next time. The flowery smell of the scented kind lingers for about 5 days.

[cleanview]

Did not let it dry very long. That was probably the problem. Just not sure how long it should dry before any buffing or second coat.

Of all the posts I have read, it seems liek the grump is a knowledgeable person to listen to. I probably only remember him because it seems like he starts every post with "this is wha the grump says" or something like that. while I appreciate the posts and found them very informative, I dont argue with advice given to me (ecspecially when I am the new one) but there are many things that can be used for more than one purpose.

Thanks again. I will try letting the first coat dry, then buff, then the 2nd color and let it dy and then buff and see how that works out.

[dickf]

If Mop-&-Glow is for floors than drills are for wood and metal. There are many different ways to do things and most times no one way is right. Katsass (the grump) is very knowledgeable when it comes to leather work and he is really smart on saddle stitching.

I didn't personally attack anyone, did I? Have you ever tried any other methods?

I've used/experimented with many different natural and acrylic finishes, and mop and glo simply cannot seal the leather properly. I dunked a piece in it 3 times, letting it dry overnight between each coat and a single drop of water will penetrate right through it. For concealed carry rigs, this is unacceptable. Mop and glo is an old secret to getting a great shine on your boots, but it will discolor and potentially crack over time on any part that flexes. Let me ask you this: how many pro holster makers are using jugs of mop and glo in production?

While there are multiple ways to skin a cat, sometimes you have to use the tools made for the job.

Anyway, that's just my opinion, and it wasn't meant to be offensive.

Good luck.

[mlapaglia]

I didn't personally attack anyone, did I? Have you ever tried any other methods?

I've used/experimented with many different natural and acrylic finishes, and mop and glo simply cannot seal the leather properly. I dunked a piece in it 3 times, letting it dry overnight between each coat and a single drop of water will penetrate right through it. For concealed carry rigs, this is unacceptable. Mop and glo is an old secret to getting a great shine on your boots, but it will discolor and potentially crack over time on any part that flexes. Let me ask you this: how many pro holster makers are using jugs of mop and glo in production?

While there are multiple ways to skin a cat, sometimes you have to use the tools made for the job.

Anyway, that's just my opinion, and it wasn't meant to be offensive.

Good luck.

No you were not attacking anyone and I am sorry if my response seemed like I thought that. This forum is great for its multiple opinions on what works. There are many ways to do most things around here and it all depends on what you want to do and how you want to accomplish it. I have used mop&glo and like it. I like resolene better but thats an opinion. I also tried a drill once. I like the awl better. In my opinion the awl does a better job.

Again, my apologies if my response seemed like I thought you were attacking anything or anyone. I just didnt make my reply clear.

Michael

Did not let it dry very long. That was probably the problem. Just not sure how long it should dry before any buffing or second coat.

Of all the posts I have read, it seems liek the grump is a knowledgeable person to listen to. I probably only remember him because it seems like he starts every post with "this is wha the grump says" or something like that. while I appreciate the posts and found them very informative, I dont argue with advice given to me (ecspecially when I am the new one) but there are many things that can be used for more than one purpose.

Thanks again. I will try letting the first coat dry, then buff, then the 2nd color and let it dy and then buff and see how that works out.

Once you have all the colors on and before you do any buffing let it dry at least over night 24 hours is better. It sounds like it was not dry.