Midsole Leather Weight Inquiry

[PaxAddict]

What weight do you guys use for midsole? It has to be thick enough to carve into. I understand that beyond that, it probably doesn't matter much, but I was just curious if you guys have a weight you generally stick to when making a pair of shoes.

[Art]

For boots, 12 iron oak shoulder if I can get it. For shoes, 8 iron.

Art

[Leatherimages]

For me, I don't have just one weight. It depends on what I'm making.

Art's range works for me, but more to the point is who I'm making for and what I'm making.

What are you making?

[Art]

Paul,

I get the impression he is trying to make shoes on more of a production basis. I don't think he understands the relationship between a custom maker and his customer. I may be wrong.

Art

[PaxAddict]

No, I'm definitely not making them on a production basis. I'm just getting into this, and looking to make my first pair for myself. This pair will be, essentially, hiking boots with an athletic rubber outsole. Just curious what the ranges were. Since I intend these to be a softer boot, more along the lines of a heartier sneaker that comes over the ankle, really, then I'll be shooting for the lighter of that line, around the 8 oz iron. I was leaning towards 8-9oz anyways, and was looking for a confirmation that I was in the right area. Of course, this is my first pair, so I expect it to fall short of my expectations, mostly fact gathering and the such.

Thanks for the info, guys!

Michael

[KAYAK45]

I think you may want to rethink the 8 OZ. thing. Do a LITTLE more research and and you will find that 1 Iron is not at all the same as 1 OZ. Sole leather is also a different tanned leather and comes in IRONS. An 8 Iron is approx. 10/11 ounce. IE each IRON is 75% of 1 OZ.

Kevin

[Art]

Kevin is correct,

1 iron = 1/48 inch

1oz = 1/64 inch.

Are you planning on gluing the sole or stitching?

Using a welt?

This all makes a difference in selection of midsole, insole, and outsole. Most things I make don't have a midsole, these are used if you are going to glue the outsole, but it just depends on what you are trying to make.

You might want to get some instruction from a maker who does the type of work you are contemplating, or try to get some time with a well experienced (not someone in a mall) cobbler.

Art

[PaxAddict]

The problem is, is that the type of shoe I'm looking to make I've never really seen done before.

It'll be essentially a side button moccasin, all leather, which I will stitch to the midsole by carving a channel in the midsole, and nailing it to a last, nailing the rest of the boot to the midsole and removing one nail at a time, as I stitch the two together. I don't know if there's a word for this method, but that's what I plan on doing. Then, once I've got the two together, gluing to it, a rubber athletic type outsole.

Hopefully that made sense. I know I'm combining a few different methods here, and I know my utter lack of terminology may invest unease in my betters, but I've got it all worked out up in the noggin', and in the number of other hobbies I've picked up over the years, once it works in my head, I generally don't run into too many issues making it work in my hands. I'm just trying to find out how thick I need my midsole to be, so that there's plenty to channel through, and still be able to work it.

So, midsole leather is a specific type of leather (vegetable tanned?) and comes in irons, as opposed to OZ. That's the kind of info I'm here to get. And the conversion rate comes out to about Oz < Iron by roughly 75%. Does that imply I could use a different type of leather for a midsole? I've got my eye on some nice 11oz buffalo leather, and if I can use it as a midsole, I might pull the trigger on it. Or, for midsoles, do I need something especially rigid, so it's easier to channel and work?

Thank you again for all of this valuable information, I might have ended up channelling right through my leather, or found myself without enough to sew. Not a huge setback, but an easily avoided one, and I'm glad for that.

As for the suggestions to get with a maker in my area, the problem is my amount of free time outside of the house. I'm in the US Army, so my free time is limited enough as it is, plus with a 6 month old daughter in the house now, making it out to apprentice with someone is out of the question. Then factor in my inability to temper my excitement, and I'm left with saying screw it, and learning on my own. Of course I'll run into road blocks, and I might waste a good amount of time and money due to inexperience, but I'm resliant in that way, and am confident (if I can find a good athletic outsole supplier) that I'll come out of this making shoes.

Thank you for your patience, guys. Please stick with me. My ingorance is generally short-lived.

TL:DR - So what problems would I run into if I used an 11oz buffalo leather as a midsole?

[PaxAddict]

Wait, I might have my terms mixed up here.

Yeah, okay. I misunderstood, I was talking about the insole.

Okay. Let's see if I can give a better description here:

I will be handstitching my insole to the upper, in the same method as welting, but without the welt. I'll hand stitch on a last, then trim down the excess and glue on an athletic sole. So, my question then, is not midsole weight, but insole weight. Enough to carve and stitch, but thin enough to still be soft on the foot?

Sorry about all the confusion.

[PaxAddict]

Looks like this type of shoemaking is called "Bespoke"?

But I'm making a completely different type of shoe, only using the bespoke soling method