#8 Thread ?

[CustomDoug]

I'm looking at a machine who's operating manual says, in regards to thread - "Use up to #8 thickness" - I'm seeing from a quick search that this roughly equals a size 415. Can there be another meaning to the quoted size #8? Because this particular machine, I would not expect it to sew with that thickness of thread.. but I could be wrong.

[mlapaglia]

Can you tell us which machine it is?

[CustomDoug]

oh sorry, it's the newer Consew 277RBFS [not the 227] - it's a narrow cylinder arm machine with synchronized binder that uses a large bobbin (M), presser foot lift is 1/2" w/ foot pedal. The guy that has it tells me that he's only used 207 thread in it but that he hasn't tried larger thread and is not sure what the maximum is. The manual that he has says "Thread: silk, cotton or synthetic thread can be used in this machine. Uses up to #8 thickness. Always use left twist thread for the needle and left or right twist for the bobbin."

[mlapaglia]

For most leather you will find 207 or 277 works fine, Some folks here use 346. A max of 415 (#8) sounds right for that type of machine. You probably wont use that large of thread but you can.

Edited October 1, 2012 by mlapaglia

[CustomDoug]

For most leather you will find 207 or 277 works fine, Some folks here use 346. A max of 415 (#8) sounds right for that type of machine. You probably wont use that large of thread but you can.

Yes I know, and my concern is that I want to be sure that it will actually sew with 277. I doubt I'd ever go as big as 415. What has confused me is whether terms "#8", "8oz", and the metric measurement of thread, in this case ".800 millimeters" all mean the same thing. I found a spool of what I think is the thread described in the owners manual, on ebay... the description read: "100% cotton thread 8oz heavyweight Carpet, Tent". I wrote the seller and he didn't know the actual thickness numbers (so I could compare it to bonded nylon), but said it was perfect for leather, heavy tent fabric or carpet thread. So, at least this tells me that "8 oz" is thick thread. My assumption now, is that all of the above terms are the same. I'm just kind of shocked that this machine would do the thick 415 thread.

[tnawrot2]

Is a 28 needle available for the machine. If someone told me that my 31-15 could use a 415 thread, I would first doubt it and then I would find out if a size 27 or 28 needle is available. If it is available then that tells me that i could use 415, if the largest size is in the low 20's then the tops would be 92 or 138.

[CustomDoug]

Is a 28 needle available for the machine. If someone told me that my 31-15 could use a 415 thread, I would first doubt it and then I would find out if a size 27 or 28 needle is available. If it is available then that tells me that i could use 415, if the largest size is in the low 20's then the tops would be 92 or 138.

Brilliant! I like that simple straight forward take on things. However, this machine uses the 135x17/16 system and the largest I've seen those in is 25. Anyone know if they come bigger than that? If 25 is indeed the largest needle then 277 could be used tops (according to Mr. tnawrot2's theory). But then that does not mesh with the "up to #8" statement that the manual says, in anyway I can figure out. Still confused unfortunately.

Edited October 1, 2012 by CustomDoug

[mlapaglia]

Contact Steve 1-866-962-9880 EVen if its not a Cobra machine he normally knows the answer.

OR, send a PM to Wizcrafts here on this board. he knows about everything there is to know about sewing machines.

Edited October 2, 2012 by mlapaglia

[Wizcrafts]

oh sorry, it's the newer Consew 277RBFS [not the 227] - it's a narrow cylinder arm machine with synchronized binder that uses a large bobbin (M), presser foot lift is 1/2" w/ foot pedal. The guy that has it tells me that he's only used 207 thread in it but that he hasn't tried larger thread and is not sure what the maximum is. The manual that he has says "Thread: silk, cotton or synthetic thread can be used in this machine. Uses up to #8 thickness. Always use left twist thread for the needle and left or right twist for the bobbin."

Cotton and soft polyester/polycore garment threads have no correspondence to the bonded nylon or bonded polyester thread used to sew leather. However, a number 8 cotton thread would be used for buttons, or decorative topstitching. It requires a #25 or 26 needle.

This type of thread is sometimes used to sew Chinese leather coats. I have had to replace zippers on coats sewn with this thread. It looks about the same diameter as #277, but is way softer and has less tensile strength than even #138 bonded thread.

Most walking foot machines using system 137x16 and 135x17 needles only take up to a #25 needle, which passes #277 thread. Very few of these machines are capable of tensioning this size of thread, or holding down the leather during sewing. In my experience, #207 is about the thickest bonded thread I can use in my walking foot machine (which has large M style bobbins and two pressure springs for the two feet).

What do you intend to sew with this machine? It is probably capable of sewing a maximum of 3/8 inch of compressed "material." That could include soft to medium temper leather, but probably nothing very hard, at 3/8 inch. It would do not too badly at 1/4 inch, using #207 thread top and bottom and a #24 leather point needle. You would need to crank the pressure screws all the way down to keep the leather from lifting with the needle.

[CustomDoug]

... However, a number 8 cotton thread would be used for buttons, or decorative topstitching. It requires a #25 or 26 needle.

Apparently it's used for heavy duty carpet and tent work too.

...Most walking foot machines using system 137x16 and 135x17 needles only take up to a #25 needle, which passes #277 thread. Very few of these machines are capable of tensioning this size of thread, or holding down the leather during sewing. In my experience, #207 is about the thickest bonded thread I can use in my walking foot machine (which has large M style bobbins and two pressure springs for the two feet).

You may be right but I feel confident that this machine will do the thick #8 cotton, since the manual names it specifically.

...What do you intend to sew with this machine? It is probably capable of sewing a maximum of 3/8 inch of compressed "material." That could include soft to medium temper leather, but probably nothing very hard, at 3/8 inch. It would do not too badly at 1/4 inch, using #207 thread top and bottom and a #24 leather point needle. You would need to crank the pressure screws all the way down to keep the leather from lifting with the needle.

I don't know what you mean by "compressed material", it's intended to do leather work according to the manufacturer but I wasn't planning it to take the place of an Adler 205 or one of the 441 clones that are so popular around here - if that's what you were meaning. I asked the question about the thread before buying so that I understood it's limits before the purchase. BTW, #277 thread is not a problem. I actually ended up getting the 287RBFS which is the same machine but with a regular size cylinder arm as opposed to the above mentioned 277RBFS' narrow arm. This machine is basically a chunkier 227 or 2700 cylinder arm machine but with Consew's "centra-lube" semi-automatic lubrication system (probably the reason for most if not all of it's chunkier profile). They are made for:

• Suitable for sewing such products as caps, cushions, boots, shoes, auto, boat and furniture upholstery, tarpaulins, covers, sails, tents, awnings, umbrellas, tops, bags, luggage, handbags, travelware, accessories, sports and camping equipment, wearing apparel, orthopedic appliances, slippers, etc.
  

This is what I'll be sewing with it. Thanks as always.

[Wizcrafts]

The thread size designations will confuse ya. There are a bunch of different standards associated with different manufacturers or places in the World.

If you follow my path you'll end up with a bunch of different sewing machines. I had narrow and wide cylinder arms, post machines, flatbeds, a Union Lockstitch machine, blind stitcher, sergers, patchers and even an industrial zig zag machine. At one time I had 13 industrial sewing machines. Now, I'm down to just 5:

1. Cowboy CB4500
   
2. Union Lockstitch
   
3. National walking foot
   
4. Singer 31-15
   
5. Singer 29K172
   

I also have these non-industrial sewing machines, all in full working condition:

1. Pfaff 2 needle-4 thread serger
   
2. Janome New Home electronic machine
   
3. Kenmore 158 type, with many attachments and cams
   
4. Singer 15-91 portable
   
5. Singer 66, motorized, in a cabinet
   
6. Kenmore Imperial Rotary, motorized, in a cabinet, from 1942
   

All in all, these machines allow me to sew anything from very light cloth to 7/8 inch of hard leather, with thread sizes ranging from #33 nylon (or #50 or thinner cotton), up to #554 nylon (or 8 cord linen). No one machine can handle the entire range. But, my Cowboy comes awful close! If I tweak it, I can use #92 thread in it and sew jeans cuffs and vests, jackets, zippers, etc. Then, I can change needles, tensions and pressures and sew a 3/4 inch holster with #346 thread.

[CustomDoug]

...All in all, these machines allow me to sew anything from very light cloth to 7/8 inch of hard leather, with thread sizes ranging from #33 nylon (or #50 or thinner cotton), up to #554 nylon (or 8 cord linen). No one machine can handle the entire range. But, my Cowboy comes awful close! If I tweak it, I can use #92 thread in it and sew jeans cuffs and vests, jackets, zippers, etc. Then, I can change needles, tensions and pressures and sew a 3/4 inch holster with #346 thread.

We're pretty much on the same page I think... I have a "high speed" (slowed down with a servo) high shank industrial straight stitch machine (essentially a Juki DDL-5550) for sewing very thin fabric liners such as acetate and satin as well as linens and cottons. Then I have the Pfaff 34 for doing thin leather work or where thinner thread is needed (leather wallet linings, coin purses, etc) plus decorative scroll work with the roller wheel. Then I have this Consew 287R for everything else (upholstery, leather handbags, caps etc.). I will eventually be getting a 441 clone for doing the thicker items that the 287R can not handle. No rush for that though as I have enough on my plate before tackling holsters and harnesses. Oh, and I actually plan to get one of those real cheap Chinese patchers soon too, for double topstitched cylinder shaped items. So, yeah a variety of machines but kept to a minimum is my goal. The 441 clone up front would have been nice (I do get that they'll do a larger variety of things), but the reality is that I could never afford the big price hit all at one time, besides I like having the small thread in a separate machine and having fewer adjustments when switching between tasks.