What's The Next Step?

[Greystone]

Have several ways to sew light to heavy material,

What is the best NEXT choice for the $$$ spent,, Skiver,,,, strap cutter,, splitter,,,Riveter

looking to increase return on time and output,,

not doing saddles, or holsters,

but headed down the path of belt making, tack repair, and bag construction,chaps, limited tooling ,

not in a particular order,

but as demand requires and the mind wonders

skiver best first choice ??,,offers many ways to cleanly finish and fold as well as flex for bag corners??

strap cutter clearly increases production of belts, tack and long items.. hand cutting right now ??

splitter makes doubling layers easy to get thickness desired ??

Rivet setter makes setting easy as well as adding decorative spots and bling,, hammering them now ???

All will be needed at some point, but what is the path you have taken and why??

and how have you done some of your work and bypassed the investment and made things work??

as well as what your focus is,,,thanks David

[Wizcrafts]

1. Splitter
   
2. Skiver
   
3. Riveter
   
4. Hand arbor press
   
5. Edge beveler
   
6. Edge dyer
   
7. Strap cutter
   

[Greystone]

1. Splitter
   
2. Skiver
   
3. Riveter
   
4. Hand arbor press
   
5. Edge beveler
   
6. Edge dyer
   
7. Strap cutter
   

Why splitter before skiver,,, if I have to order a hide I could have them split to uniform thickness?? first thought???

if a splitter a small bench top 6"-9"? or a larger 12"+?? powered ??? or what is a good compromise???

riveter a soon must I'm learning,,also

Edited October 18, 2012 by Greystone

[Wizcrafts]

Maybe we aren't referring to the same types of equipment. When I say splitter, I am thinking about a bolt on table top splitter, like the Osborne, Heritage, Tandy variety. You mentioned wanting to make belts and a pull splitter can be had for $275 to $400, depending on the width, brand and quality of construction.

If you car to pay about $500 - $600, you can get a pull splitter that also does lap-skives on belts. Blades are usually either 4.75 or 6 inches wide.

Hand cranked splitters typically go for $800 and up.

Motorized belt splitters will be more efficient, but can cost upwards of $1200 or more to get one with a 12 inch blade.

To skive edges of belts, or chap leather, you need a bell knife driven skiver machine. These sell for $1200 to $3300, depending on brand, quality, capacity and drive system.

I know that most or all of our sewing machine dealers (advertisers) also carry splitters and skivers.

[Greystone]

thanks Wiz looking to spend $$ wisely not over kill

I have been shopping with the dealers here

but looking to hear from experience as to the order of need or most needed

[CustomDoug]

Keep in mind that if you get the motor driven bell knife skiver, they will typically skive an edge up to 50mm which is 2". So my understanding is that it could be used as a splitter too, up to 4" strip of leather, if both edges are run through. Ya'll correct me if I'm wrong on that (as I haven't actually got my machine to try it yet). These machines also typically have a built in sharpening stone which is a God send in my opinion - keeping a table mounted splitter sharp has been a challenge for me. Of course you might need to split larger items, so I'd think you could just do the edges of a 5-6" wide piece and hand skive the center with round knife or whatever. I think most of these machines will bevel the edges too (can someone confirm this for me). I noticed that Wizcraft's list has #2 Skiver and #5 Edge Beveler.... Wiz, are there separate machines for these things that do a better job than the combo bell knife skivers? This is what I've been looking at getting next. Followed by the strap cutter, then Riveter, then Arbor Press and dies.

Edited October 19, 2012 by CustomDoug

[Wizcrafts]

Bell knifes are round across the cutting blade. By nature, they produce a tapered skive, not a straight one. You are going to have to deal with the difference in curvature between the top guide and the blade if you try to produce a flat, wide skive. While you can make multiple passes skiving different areas of the leather, it is not the same as cranking the leather through a flat blade skiver.

That said, I have had success skiving wide pieces of veg-tan leather by carefully playing with the positions of the top guide and knife edge. I used to spin the leather around over the blade, until it just passed through with no further material getting skived.

The above is more successful on serrated drive cones, rather than conical stones.

The edge beveler I referred to is a hand pulled device that has cutting blades on both sides, on 45 degree angles.

[CustomDoug]

Bell knifes are round across the cutting blade. By nature, they produce a tapered skive, not a straight one. You are going to have to deal with the difference in curvature between the top guide and the blade if you try to produce a flat, wide skive. While you can make multiple passes skiving different areas of the leather, it is not the same as cranking the leather through a flat blade skiver.

That said, I have had success skiving wide pieces of veg-tan leather by carefully playing with the positions of the top guide and knife edge. I used to spin the leather around over the blade, until it just passed through with no further material getting skived.

The above is more successful on serrated drive cones, rather than conical stones.

The edge beveler I referred to is a hand pulled device that has cutting blades on both sides, on 45 degree angles.

Sounds perfectly logical to me, I do know the bell knife is round and wondered how it managed to make level skives.. but I didn't pull that idea out of the blue, I got it from reading things like Bruce Johnson's comments in this thread: Leather Strap End Skiver And Splitter Machine - quote (hope you don't mind Bruce?) "For softer leather like that, I use a bell knive skiver. I can set them to level split up to about 2 inches wide. I have run straps through crosswise and done laps." Also, if you look at this thread Not A Sewing Machine, But A Skiving Machine!, the pictures of the skived leather looks very flat and level to me... though it could just be an illusion I admit. So you're saying that probably these guys did multiple passes through the machine with various distances from the edge to get the flattened area? Even so, that's gotta be faster than hand skiving chrome leather if nothing else. Then again, looking at the original poster's list he may be using veg tan mostly. Oh, also there is my memory of reading somewhere about an optional pressor foot for the machines that was better for doing beveled edges - but that sounds backwards and I can't find where I saw it.. so who knows. I'm keeping it at the top of my list.

PS - I just located where I got the special pressor foot for beveled edges idea.. it's part of an add I read for a particular skiving machine. It reads "Also suitable for bevel skiving with use of special presser foot - available on special order."

Edited October 20, 2012 by CustomDoug

[Wizcrafts]

Bell knife skivers have a steep learning curve. You will ruin a lot of leather before you get it right. Once dialed in, they can do tricks.

As for special attachments, that would be specific to a particular brand, or style of machine. Don't ASSume that a foot for one machine will fit the machine you buy, unless it is mentioned in the copy of the ad.

Until you actually stand in front of a bell knife skiver and work with it, nothing anybody tells you will have any material bearing on your results. They are a beast unto themselves.

Once a user becomes fine-tuned to their skiver, magic can be made to happen. Until then, a lot of leather gets chewed up.

[CustomDoug]

Bell knifes are round across the cutting blade. By nature, they produce a tapered skive, not a straight one. You are going to have to deal with the difference in curvature between the top guide and the blade if you try to produce a flat, wide skive.

I think this depends. Sure they are round but whether a skiving machine cuts a tapered edge or a leveled edge probably comes down to which foot the machine left the factory with or that the mechanic installed on it before placing it for sale. So you are probably ASSuming they are all like yours. My guess is that the newer skiving machines may more often come with a curved foot (or set of feet) which apparently can produce a level skive. I say this based on the fact that some of the adds are mentioning a special foot for beveled edges (a straight bottomed foot). Here's a graphic that I found on another forum showing that the foot that came with this persons machine was making straight skives (they preferred beveled) so they figured out that a flat bottom foot was needed for the bevels (see item#5 of the second picture). BTW - they were considering making their own with teflon until they found them [ENLARGE THE PICS AT THE BOTTOM OF MY POST]:

Don't ASSume that a foot for one machine will fit the machine you buy, unless it is mentioned in the copy of the ad.

I would not ASSume anything (thanks for inadvertantly calling me names, btw) - I would not assume that certain feet would be available (although, the truth is that all of these new skiving machines look like clones of each other, I'd be real surprised if there were much difference between them). Besides like I said, the special feet are mentioned in the adds of some of them, so no assumptions there on my part.

Until you actually stand in front of a bell knife skiver and work with it, nothing anybody tells you will have any material bearing on your results. .... Until then, a lot of leather gets chewed up.

Disagree. The fact is that they will do level skives - too much info out there pointing to it. There are some conversations on the net (if not on this very forum) that can be found where people get help working through problems they are experiencing. So that helps. Besides, chewed up leather and a learning curve is a given IMHO. I don't think anyone should be discouraged if wanting to pursue this machine as a "next step". My apologies to the original poster for the slight detour from the original subject. The above is just my $.02

Edited October 21, 2012 by CustomDoug

[Trox]

Wiz is right about the bell skiver, it takes time to master it. However, it is no problem to split even strips of leather up to 50 mm wide. The knife is round, and so is the presser foot. It has the same radius as the knife, set at the same distance flat against the knife and it will act as a splitter.

I use mine to skive and split thin skin/garment leather. When I make welts for my leather backpacks, I have to reduce the thickness of the leather to use it to make welts. I split garment leather strips about 30 to 40 mm wide on my bell knife skiver. I then roll them around a rubber core to make round welts.

The machine is no replacement for the bench top splitter. When set up for garment leather, you have to change feed roll (a steel feed roll works better on veg tan) and do many adjustments to split/skive veg tan leather. In addition, do many test runs on scrap leather.

When you learn to use the bell knife skiver, you can adjust it without doing many test runs. However, it takes time to get there. I leave my bell skiver set up for garment leather and use my bench top splitters for lap skives, and splitting belt and straps.

You will see yourself what part of your work process that take the longest and what machine you need to speed things up. I need both splitters and the bell skiver because of the variety of leatherwork I do.

If I have to skive some veg tan leather, I will just grab my skiving knife or round knife and do this easy skive. It has to be some yards of skiving before I will readjust my bell knife skiver for that job.

Garment leather on the other hand is more time consuming to skive proper; it is jobs for the bell knife skiver regardless of the length of skive.

Trox

[Trox]

The easy way to split 50 mm (two inch) wide leather strip on the bell skiver without any adjustments. If your skiver is set up for a normal 25 mm (one-inch) bevel skive, you can run a strap twice true the machine. Skive one side, turn it, and skive the other side. Then you will have a level split without messing up your skivers set up.