Any Hand Riveters Useful For Leather Work ?

[HellfireJack]

That little setter probably wouldn't handle copper rivets too well. I wouldn't use anything less than a one ton arbor press.

Perhaps if ease and looks are what you're looking for Chicago screws might be easier an option?

[CustomDoug]

That little setter probably wouldn't handle copper rivets too well. I wouldn't use anything less than a one ton arbor press.

Perhaps if ease and looks are what you're looking for Chicago screws might be easier an option?

Really? I'm surprised.. you're saying that hand press at Springfield and Tandy is too light weight for copper rivets and burrs? But earlier you linked to a smallish (I assume) hammer punch kind of setter at Tandy.. but also say that you would not use anything less than an arbor press.. I think I may have gotten confused. Do you or have you used the tandy punch style setter? Also, I know nothing about arbor presses.. but Harbor Freight has a 1/2 ton one for $35 in your opinion would this be suitable for setting copper rivets into leather? http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-ton-arbor-press-3551.html Thanks you guys.

[katsass]

FWIW; copper rivets are set by first driving the burr down the slightly tapered shaft of the rivet with the use of a drilled hole in the set(er). When the burr is down solidly, the excess of the rivet is trimmed off and the second portion of the set is used to round over that portion left standing proud above the burr. I don't think that the little hand press even has a dye available to set the burr, and definitely is not powerful enough to actually 'set' the round head you want. Peening over the rivet just makes a mess aesthetically, although is will hold if done properly, but that's why a rivet set is used for this type of operation. Mike.

Edited October 31, 2012 by katsass

[Art]

You might want to look at the

from Weaver Leather. I have this machine and it is not for burr rivets. I set Burr rivets with a set of tools from Bob Douglas; call Vandy at Sheridan Leather.

I have 2 Press-N-Snap setters from my boat canvas days loaded with everything to set Ligne 24 snaps. In the video, you will see all the adjusting going on with the Little Wonder. We sew most everything so we don't use rivets much and more often than not they are burr rivets for strength. In a production shop that uses a lot of different sizes and types of fasteners, a bunch of Little Wonders set up for the things you do the most and then a couple for the odd things would work nicely.

Art

[CustomDoug]

....I don't think that the little hand press even has a dye available to set the burr, and definitely is not powerful enough to actually 'set' the round head you want. Peening over the rivet just makes a mess aesthetically, although is will hold if done properly, but that's why a rivet set is used for this type of operation. Mike.

Yea, I knew how the copper set worked but I wasn't sure if the hand press could do the operation too, and whether a dye was available for both parts of the procedure - thus negating the need to buy the small hammering tool. Doesn't sound like that's possible though. I guess it doesn't matter, I was just trying to get as much done with the machine which I want to get anyway. Are there much difference in the new hand presses compared to the cheap old used ones you find on ebay? I guess finding out the hole size for the dyes is crucial. Also, do either utilize a dye on the top part for certain operations? If so, how's that held in (threaded maybe)?

[CustomDoug]

You might want to look at the

from Weaver Leather. I have this machine and it is not for burr rivets. I set Burr rivets with a set of tools from Bob Douglas; call Vandy at Sheridan Leather.

I have 2 Press-N-Snap setters from my boat canvas days loaded with everything to set Ligne 24 snaps. In the video, you will see all the adjusting going on with the Little Wonder. We sew most everything so we don't use rivets much and more often than not they are burr rivets for strength. In a production shop that uses a lot of different sizes and types of fasteners, a bunch of Little Wonders set up for the things you do the most and then a couple for the odd things would work nicely.

Art

Hi Art, I like that little Wonder, I need to look into it. One question though.. when using the other tool(s) - for setting copper rivets (3 pieces Douglas tools) what happens to the side that you've clipped and peened when you have it flipped over to use the rivet "doming" punch on the other side? Seems like it would need to sit in an anvil with a hole in the center (to accomdate the peened stem). Otherwise, the dome side may come out crooked, no?

[TwinOaks]

The post of the rivet (which gets clipped) IS the part that gets peened over. The post is on the opposite end of the head...much like a nail, and the washer is driven down over it. The post has a slight taper at the tip to help align the washer, but you aren't likely to push it down by hand. Once you drive the washer down on the post, you clip off the excess post, leaving just a little nub. That little nub is literally BEATEN (peened) until you deform and spread the metal out to cover a portion of the washer. Once that is done, the only way to remove the washer is to move all that copper that's been peened down...which typically 'work hardens' it. As long as you have the washer in there, the leather is REALLY unlikely to work it loose. That is why they are so secure.

My experience is that you need something pretty solid under the rivet, and a real hammer...NOT a mallet...to do the peening. After all, you're beating a short metal post into a wider and flatter piece of metal. Don't be afraid to smack it. I was having difficulty with the domed part of the set until I picked up 'enough' hammer (24oz smooth face Estwing) and flattened the post a good bit with direct impact. THEN I went about rounding it.

P.S. Don't set copper burr rivets on your stamping block....unless you're angling for a new stamping block.

[CustomDoug]

The post of the rivet (which gets clipped) IS the part that gets peened over. The post is on the opposite end of the head...much like a nail, and the washer is driven down over it. The post has a slight taper at the tip to help align the washer, but you aren't likely to push it down by hand. Once you drive the washer down on the post, you clip off the excess post, leaving just a little nub. That little nub is literally BEATEN (peened) until you deform and spread the metal out to cover a portion of the washer. Once that is done, the only way to remove the washer is to move all that copper that's been peened down...which typically 'work hardens' it. As long as you have the washer in there, the leather is REALLY unlikely to work it loose. That is why they are so secure.

My experience is that you need something pretty solid under the rivet, and a real hammer...NOT a mallet...to do the peening. After all, you're beating a short metal post into a wider and flatter piece of metal. Don't be afraid to smack it. I was having difficulty with the domed part of the set until I picked up 'enough' hammer (24oz smooth face Estwing) and flattened the post a good bit with direct impact. THEN I went about rounding it.

P.S. Don't set copper burr rivets on your stamping block....unless you're angling for a new stamping block.

I feel bad that you wrote all that TwinOaks - maybe I didn't make it clear enough that I understood how the whole things work.. I already did, but thanks anyway. What I was asking about was the "domed set(ter)" that makes a dome on the opposite side.. the large head side. What I'm questioning is : when the assembled rivet is turned over (peened stud side down) wouldn't you need some kind of anvil with a hole in the middle (to accomodate the peened stud) while the "Dome setter" is doing it's job? Otherwise it seems to me that the dome on the rivet could come out crooked - because it's all teetering on the tip of the peened stud underneith.

Edited October 31, 2012 by CustomDoug

[HellfireJack]

Really? I'm surprised.. you're saying that hand press at Springfield and Tandy is too light weight for copper rivets and burrs? But earlier you linked to a smallish (I assume) hammer punch kind of setter at Tandy.. but also say that you would not use anything less than an arbor press.. I think I may have gotten confused. Do you or have you used the tandy punch style setter? Also, I know nothing about arbor presses.. but Harbor Freight has a 1/2 ton one for $35 in your opinion would this be suitable for setting copper rivets into leather? http://www.harborfre...press-3551.html Thanks you guys.

The setter is a solid piece of steel that can be hit multiple times to form the rivet head. They will probably be putting more force than that press can in a single blow. You effectively deform the rivet a little at a time. The problem with using hand tools to set hardware isn't generally too little force but rather too much force and often times in the wrong direction to set the hardware properly.

I've seen those presses at Tandy and they don't look like they'd be strong enough to deform copper. With a press you can only ever achieve the max force its rated for and once you reach that and it fails to deform you don't have much of an option. I can't say for sure but I would be surprised if that Crafttool press could put out more than a few hundred pounds of force. I could be wrong. You'd have to contact Crafttool to truly find out but I'm sure if it was anywhere near a half ton it would say it in the features.

The 1/2 ton press is fairly small. I can crush a #9 rivet with a little work using one though. You want to be able to do the work with as little effort as possible if you're going to be doing a lot of them. I would not want to use a 1/2 ton on multiple rivets every day. The more force the better.

[katsass]

FWIW: I'm lost and don't know what the hell you are talking about, There ain't no dome on a copper rivet - - it's flat as a pancake and - if properly set - sits flush with the surface of the leather. The side with the burr and peened stud sit just slightly proud of the opposite surface. It's over and finished with just a couple of whacks with a good hammer, as in these pics. Mike

Edited November 1, 2012 by katsass