Smallest Needle Size

[ramrod]

i've read the links to needle sizing and needle and thread size, but i can't find this info: what is the smallest needle size i can use on my 211g155? i'm using #138 thread right now for the stuff i'm sewing. but i want to make some watch bands. the needle i have in the machine now is too big. i can't tell what size it is because the size info is all worn away.

ideally, i'd like to drop down to #69 thread with the appropriate needle size.

thank you.

[gottaknow]

I've used a size 16 with T70 and down to a size 12 with T40 on 211's. If you want to fudge down to a 14, you'll need to increase the tension of the thread to decrease the loop size at loop taking time. If your hook timing is retarded a bit, you can get away with T70 and a size 14. You may break some 14's. You'll want to decrease your stitch length as well so you're not stressing your needle.

Regards, Eric

[ramrod]

well, thank you for the reply, eric. this helps a lot. some of that is over my head, however. i didn't realize that you could alter the loop size - or does a tension change automatically do that?

stitch length i get - i figured that something like a watch band would want a 10 to 12 SPI anyway.

[gottaknow]

Increasing needle tension makes the loop smaller. This can also be helpful when using thread that's got a lot of body. Stiff thread forms a bigger loop which will flop sideways at loop taking time which can cause skips as well. I've got some illustrations I'll post later that help explain some common thread issues.

Regards, Eric

[trekster]

Not sure if this will be helpful, but on my Boss, the factory recommended a #120 needle with my #69 thread. I haven't actually tried it yet.

[CowboyBob]

The problem with the Boss is the needle is so long & of course when you go maller it'll bend & break alot easier.The smallest size made is a #110 which is what I recommend for #69 in these machines.A 120 would make a larger hole.

Bob

[gottaknow]

Here's some information to consider if you're using a thread for the first time. Keep in mind that even if you've been using a particular thread, size, color etc., cones of thread vary. Sometimes within the same cone. I don't like to blame machine problems on thread, but there are times when one minute things are working great, the next not so much. Something I like to do when I'm using a new thread is check how tight it's twisted. The picture shows the exact method I have used for years and the problems that can arise. There are ways to overcome these to some degree, but sometimes you have to grab a new cone. We use up thread that's less than desirable on bobbins or loopers on chainstitch machines.

Even using the standard "can I use this thread with this needle test" doesn't always tell the real story. If you have a thread you want to use with a certain needle size. Try it. See what it does. Don't lock yourself into a chart. Granted, there are some threads that simply won't go through certain needles. There are however, many shapes of eyes in needles. Different brands of needles have different shaped eyes. Whenever you're dealing with needles and thread, think about the loop that the hook must "pick up",

You want the loop to be as consistent as possible to avoid skips, broken thread, and poor appearance. Increasing needle tension will make a loop smaller, loosening will make it bigger. Your bobbin tension will have to be adjusted accordingly. With thread that's wound too tight, this is a good way to make the loop more consistant. With a smaller loop, your timing must be more precise. You can also "retard" the timing of the hook, that is making it come in later to the loop, closer to the eye where the loop is more likely to be more consistant. You can also turn the needle slightly towards the direction that the hook is going to pick up the loop. Doing this presents the loop at a different angle. On thread that's slightly too small for a certain needle, you can actually wrap the thread one time around the needle before threading the eye.

When trying new threads and needles, I always consider what my "loop" is doing. Getting used to this concept will allow you to expand your machine knowledge and what your machine's capable of.

Regards, Eric

[ramrod]

excellent pics and info. i hadn't realized that manufacturers products varied so widely - within the same cone.

i still owe bob a call to get my material guide....and now some needles.

i WILL be calling you bob.