Round Knife Vs Box Cutter?

[schwebel]

I am a relative noob to leatherworking. Maybe about 4 months expirience. I have been using a box cutter for making my holsters. It works, but the blades don't stay sharp for long and the cuts seem like they leave something to be desired. I have been wondering about a round knife. Are they worth the investment, or will they return the same results as a box knife? Also what size(s) are the best to use for holsters. Can I use one or do I need a couple different sized blades?

Edited December 1, 2012 by schwebel

[Shooter McGavin]

I gave up on round knives because the ability to sharpen them correctly eludes me. I still use an exacto knife to cut leather. I keep a sharpening stone nearby and give the blade a couple of swipes every few patterns.

[Chief31794]

I use both, I don't see any difference in the cuts. I use a very good quality knife and buy blades (serrated) in the 50 packs. One trick I learned over the years, when I turn the blade around I use a sharpie and mark an X on the used end, that way (with my memory) I don't have to try to remember whether I've already turned it or not. One other thing I do when I cut regardless of which knife I use is I dampen the leather with a sponge and let dry slightly (not wet, just damp). That makes the cuts seem to go smoother and yields a cleaner edge. Last trick is if you use a razor knife and you have curves to cut, I normally cut the curved lines with a swivel knife to provide a nice flowing "groove" to follow with the razor knife. Just me, but that's the way I do it. Round knife works well however, it does require maintenance.

Chief

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Simply put, I use my round knife so much, and so often, that after all these years, I still haven't made a holder for it! I just set it on my bench, cause I know that I will be picking it up in just another minute to use again. Once you have mastered it, the round knife becomes the most used tool you have. If you plan to do a lot of work with leather, by all means the round knife is a good investment.

If you are having troule sharpening it, get the Stohlman book on leatherworking tools and their use.

Bob

[JLSleather]

I always have a "box cutter" (utility knife) around. Great for long straight cuts - and no sharpening. It's worth 25 cents for a blade to NOT have to sharpen it. As Chief said, they aint great for curves. For that (just cutting out leather) I use x-acto blades (stil no sharpening).

With a round knife, you can cut, skive, bevel, stuff you wouldn't want to do with a utility knife. That said, I should say that I wouldn't want to do with a utitily knife, the next guy might be fine with it (I once saw a young boy with some line wrapped around a Pepsi can catching more fish than some fellas with all the latest tackle).

[robertmeco]

I always have a "box cutter" (utility knife) around. Great for long straight cuts - and no sharpening. It's worth 25 cents for a blade to NOT have to sharpen it. As Chief said, they aint great for curves. For that (just cutting out leather) I use x-acto blades (stil no sharpening).

With a round knife, you can cut, skive, bevel, stuff you wouldn't want to do with a utility knife. That said, I should say that I wouldn't want to do with a utitily knife, the next guy might be fine with it (I once saw a young boy with some line wrapped around a Pepsi can catching more fish than some fellas with all the latest tackle).

I always have a "box cutter" (utility knife) around. Great for long straight cuts - and no sharpening. It's worth 25 cents for a blade to NOT have to sharpen it. As Chief said, they aint great for curves. For that (just cutting out leather) I use x-acto blades (stil no sharpening).

With a round knife, you can cut, skive, bevel, stuff you wouldn't want to do with a utility knife. That said, I should say that I wouldn't want to do with a utitily knife, the next guy might be fine with it (I once saw a young boy with some line wrapped around a Pepsi can catching more fish than some fellas with all the latest tackle).

Here is a linc for round knives and sharpening them that might help you

http://www.leatherwranglers.com/index.html

[JLSleather]

Thanks for the link

Actually, I wasn't suggesting NOT using a round knife. Much more versatille than the disposable blades. I just meant that if all I need is a straight edge on a hide, or cut some simple shapes, then I use the disposable ones to avoid the wear (and additional sharpening) on the round knife.

[TwinOaks]

I've found that I'm better with an 'click' knife for detail work, but for long cuts, or cuts on thick leather the round knife wins out. Sharpening properly IS the key, as is stropping. I have a hard time using the round knife for long cuts while seated. I also use it for long bevels/skives. And while it's not as much as Bob, I keep finding myself reaching for it ...first.

[SooperJake]

I hone all blades, including utility and exacto blades. Many folks don't sharpen for enough..meaning they never get the two planes of a cutting edge to meet. Magnification of the edge at various stages of sharpening is a great way to explain what is going on during the sharpening process. One of those lit magnifiers may be worth getting. A USB digital microsope

is a really cool teaching aid.

Ideally when you initially sharpen a cutting tool, a wire burr will form. This looks like a little flap of tin foil stuck to the edge and can be moved . When you get to this point you have "sharpened" the metal down to a very thin place along the edge, and it is critical that this foil or wire edge be stropped away, not broken off. Hand stropping takes time ( I use power on some things), and the closer you get to completion, the more apt the wire edge is to break. Once you get to the "magic point" where the two planes of the cutting edge meet, and the wire burr has been worn away by the stropping compound, you are getting a tool that is truly sharp.

A cutting edge is really a kind of saw. The quality of the steel (grain structure) will determine how small you can make the "teeth" at the edge. If you could make an edge achieve a thickness of one molecule, why you'd have a really sharp tool. Edge holding ability comes from hardness and bevel angle. You sharpen the angle based on the use. Typically, a scalpel has a lower included cutting angle than an chisel. Microbeveling is a technique that tricks the tool into a higher degree of sharpenness with more resistence to folding under pressure. Mallet struck woodworking chisels can benefit from microbeveling, where the cutting edge may be 15° included, and the rest of the tool beveled at 20° or more. It's also a fast way to get a lower angle as you have less metal to remove at the edge.

I'm new to use of the round knife, but for some cuts, like an exterior radius on a hide that is particularly firm of hand, I find it indispensable, as I rock around to make the cut. I like a honed utility blade for long straight cuts.

Clean cut leather shines, literally.

[IngleGunLeather]

I use several knives. Primarily I use the utility knife for rough cuts(cutting outside the line) and then I use my round knife for detailed cuts (on the line). I've also got the curved and straight trim knives that serve their own purpose as well. The curved trim knife for the sharp curves. The straight trim knife is great for skiving and cutting narrow long strips such as bullet loops or belt keepers. Regardless of which knife I use I never try to cut all the way through the leather on the first pass and I always strop with green rouge during use. The more projects you do you'll find yourself needing a specialty tool for.

Edited December 1, 2012 by CountryTrash

[Andrew Chee]

If you're primarily cutting straight lines nothing beats a rotary knife. I use a 60mm Olfa rotary cutter and it's great for straight lines.

Andrew

[IngleGunLeather]

If you're primarily cutting straight lines nothing beats a rotary knife. I use a 60mm Olfa rotary cutter and it's great for straight lines.

Andrew

What thickness leather are you able to cut with those?

[Andrew Chee]

Pretty much anything. The thickest I've done is probably 8-10oz veg tan. It works like a sharp pizza cutter which is nice cause it pushes down on the leather and cuts instead of dragging across the leather like an exactly knife would. The thing is that you really can't use these for curves.

Andrew

[Matt Alsaker]

I have a round knife, curved trim knife, utility knife, and exacto knife on the bench. I probably use the round knife to make 95+% of my cuts (I also don't have a case for it) and the exacto knife for the rest. I rarely use the curved trim knife, for me that was a waste of money. When I first started out I used a utility knife to cut everything. With practice, I found the round knife to be more efficient. Like CountryTrash, I don't cut through on the first pass, I just score the line. Switching from pulling a utility knife to pushing a round knife took a little patience and practice, but I am more comfortable with it now. I know a lot of people prefer to use a utility knife. In the end, it's more personal preference than anything. Three to four times a year a friend of mine makes custom knives sharpens my round knife for me, he has the equipment and skill to keep it sharp - I couldn't do it on my own.

[malabar]

I've been using utilityknives to do my cutting, mostly because I've read so many posts about quality problems with round knives. So if I'm going to take the plunge and try a round knife, what brand will take and hold the kind of edge needed?

tk

Edited December 2, 2012 by malabar

[Bluesman]

If you're looking for a good round knife. Contact Bruce Johnson, he's a member here and sells used, refurbished knives. Can't get any better than what Bruce sells and the price is right.

[IngleGunLeather]

I've been using utilityknives to do my cutting, mostly because I've read so many posts about quality problems with round knives. So if I'm going to take the plunge and try a round knife, what brand will take and hold the kind of edge needed?

tk

I have the Stohlman Damascus knives. I haven't tried any other brand of knives, so I couldn't tell you whether one is better than the other. I will just say I'm happy with mine.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Ok, I am going to jump in here. I will try to keep from rambling on, however; I am old so I might wander off, that's the chance you take when you listen to me!! First, regardless of what you use to cut with, round, box, exacto, butter, it dosn't matter, It must be sharp if you want to produce quality work. I am of the opinion that if you want sharp, you should take the time to at least learn how to sharpen a blade. I learned over 65 years ago in the boy scouts, and it has been a skill I have used and been glad I learned many times over. Second, if you are going to buy a round knife, used, Bruce is a very good place to look. New, then be prepared to spend some money to get the advantage of getting the very best tecknology in steel in your blade. Knipper, and all the other guys on this sight can get you in the right direction. Personally, I still use the old Osborn I bought about 25 years ago, it holds a real keen edge, and gets me though anything I want to cut. Not sure how the Osborns of today match up in quality of steel, but mine holds a real edge and gets me through any project I choose to make. I use 13 to 15 oz skirting leather to start, for almost all of my projects. As for using a round knife for straight cuts, and tight corner cuts, I use it for all. A little tip: If you want to cut a straight line lean the knife forward so that the edge of the blade is forcing the knife to go straight. If you are cutting around a curve, lean the blade backward so you are cutting with the tip of the blade, which will allow you to follow the curve you want without messing it up. Last, someone here mentioned that they use a groover or similar tool to mark where they want to cut, that it gives you a good start without buggering up the cut. That works and gives you a nice line on the curved cuts. After all that, bottom line is what ever you use, practice makes perfect, be your own worst critic, and you will get to where you want to be as a leather artist . Now that's my story an I am sticking to it!!

Bob

[renegadelizard]

A little tip: If you want to cut a straight line lean the knife forward so that the edge of the blade is forcing the knife to go straight. If you are cutting around a curve, lean the blade backward so you are cutting with the tip of the blade, which will allow you to follow the curve you want without messing it up.

Too Funny!..ive been usung my round knife for about 6 months now and just figured this out last week...im using the osbourne and after reshaping the ends a little, it cuts great....i strop every other session or so, or when i feel the knofe start to drag a little, but it seems to hold an edge just fine...

[lwm803]

I recently ordered the medium Stohlman stainless round knife because I had never used a round knife before and wanted to see what all the hype was about. I spent the first evening with it making test cuts, sharpening, and stropping it until it was cutting like butter. Pushing the round knife is such a natural motion that I found the "learning curve" to be non existent for me. Of course I have used and sharpened my own knives for many different types of work for many years (since the late 50's) so I am sure that had some influence. The round knife is now the first choice for me when cutting leather whether the cutting is straight or curved. It is also the easiest that I have for skiving. I am not a professional leather worker, it is not even my main hobby, so this is just my impression of a round knife that is not generally very highly regarded among those who mention it. It has always been my experience that a sharp knife is always the best knife, Whether or not that knife stays sharp or requires frequent sharpening is usually a matter of of both dollars and sense (not cents).

[IngleGunLeather]

Chief makes an excellent recommendation on dampening the leather. I do something similar. However, I spray the flesh side with water instead of the grain side. Makes for a very nice clean cut, especially on the Hermann Oak.

Another alternative for sharp curves is to punch them first with a hole punch.

Edited December 5, 2012 by CountryTrash

[Big O]

I've just been using a utility knife, and sharpening the blades with one of those V-shaped carbide and ceramic sharpeners.

And cutting in 2-3 passes.

[J Hayes]

I use this utility knife with a hook blade. I cut with my knife under the leather and seem to do pretty well with it. I've cut 12-15 holsters with this knife and haven't sharpened it. This is a roofing one that I had on hand, curves aren't to bad unless they're real tight. For straight cuts I use my wife's rotary cutter and quilt mat and straight edge, shhh.

[J Hayes]

As I'm looking at the Osbourne knives, 70 & 71, I see them referred to as both round knives and head knives, which are they? Also I see a new one costs about $60 while a vintage one is $130 and some really really poor looking rusted pitted ones on ebay going for more than a new one as well. Whats the deal? Is the steel better in the old ones or is it just "antique" nature if them?

Jeremy

[chiefjason]

I've just been using a utility knife, and sharpening the blades with one of those V-shaped carbide and ceramic sharpeners.

And cutting in 2-3 passes.

If you don't have a strop you need to make one. Those sharpeners only do so much, and it ain't much compared to someone that knows what they are doing. I just ordered a new Osbourne #70 from Springfield and I had to strop it before I got started. Not because it was not sharp, but because it was not sharp enough. Take some leather and glue it with one rough side up and one smooth side up. Put some jewelers rouge in the rough side. After sharpening pull your blades across the rough side, but pull them backwards so they are not cutting. Repeat that on the smooth side. There will be a huge difference. I sharpen my box blades and have been using the same blade for nearly 3 months now. Here is my system. The strops are on the right side, it's actually 2 double sided strops but I used them to shot both sides in one picture.

As I'm looking at the Osbourne knives, 70 & 71, I see them referred to as both round knives and head knives, which are they? Also I see a new one costs about $60 while a vintage one is $130 and some really really poor looking rusted pitted ones on ebay going for more than a new one as well. Whats the deal? Is the steel better in the old ones or is it just "antique" nature if them?

Jeremy

A buddy of mine was commenting the other day that collectors were driving the price up. I would be the steel is better too though. I'm not a fan of some of the newer stuff. I hand sharpen and can get a knife shaving sharp pretty quick. The really hard steels make that tougher to do by hand IMO. I have tossed a few knives because they are too much trouble to sharpen.

And to answer the OP, I'm loving the new round knife. I find it much easier to make some of the cuts. The sharp inside cuts will take some work and I have been just doing those with the utility knife. I did manage to do one with the round knife tonight. I find that if I hang the cut line off of the table I can push the round knife quicker and easier than I could use the utility knife. I may be committing some type of round knife sin doing that, but it sure works well.