Lacing Question

[NJBallsout]

Hey everyone,

Total noob at leatherwork, but I am a pretty handy guy. Im in the middle of building a vintage bobber motorcycle and Im at the point of making my own sprung solo seat. Ive been wandering around this site for a few weeks and I have to say the craftsmanship on this site is unreal.

My question is this, Im at the point that Im punching the holes to mate the top piece to the bottom piece and I ordered one of those 4 in 1 hole punches (3/32") to make sure I have nice even holes. However, Id like to use a 1/8" flat lacing because I think the thicker lace will look better. Will that work or will I run into problems? Should I just go with a 3/32" lace? Id like to do a Double Loop stitch.

Thank in advance guys.

[Chief31794]

Hey everyone,

Total noob at leatherwork, but I am a pretty handy guy. Im in the middle of building a vintage bobber motorcycle and Im at the point of making my own sprung solo seat. Ive been wandering around this site for a few weeks and I have to say the craftsmanship on this site is unreal.

My question is this, Im at the point that Im punching the holes to mate the top piece to the bottom piece and I ordered one of those 4 in 1 hole punches (3/32") to make sure I have nice even holes. However, Id like to use a 1/8" flat lacing because I think the thicker lace will look better. Will that work or will I run into problems? Should I just go with a 3/32" lace? Id like to do a Double Loop stitch.

Thank in advance guys.

Yes, those holes are large enough, you want the holes a little tight. I tried the multiple hole punches and didn't like them because the tubes weren't very tight and had a tendancy to wobble and not stay straight. I would experiment on some scrap to get the feeling of how the tool works and to determine if you like the results. Additionally, I prefer the slits made with a thonging chisel if I'm doing the double loop lacing technique, I try not to use holes unless I'm doing Round Braid or Mexican Basetweave (another name for Round Braid), although the slits can be used for that technique as well.

Chief

Chief

Edited December 3, 2012 by Chief31794

[NJBallsout]

Thanks Chief, I was figuring the extra 1/32" in lacing width wouldnt make a terrible amount of difference, but wanted to be sure. I have a rotary punch tool also, so Ill play around before I start.

This is the lace that I was going to order, any opinions on the quality?

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/store/5007-01.aspx

[electrathon]

I use 1/8 inch lace all the time. Always use 3/32 holes (slits), it looks better.

[benlilly1]

If you use a rotary punch your hand is going to feel it. I use a single punch to eliminate hurting my hands. If you use a thonging chisel make sure the slits are big enough for your needle to pass through 2 layers of leather or you will have trouble. Also if you're wanting the lacing to last I'd use Kangaroo lace. I've used the other and it won't last long. It's not strong enough. Good Luck

[Beaverslayer]

electrathon,

I have to totally disagree with you on the slits for lacing on the project NJBallslout is doing. A bike seat is a high stress item, as it is being sat on all the time while being ridden down the road. By using slits, you are already "Slicing" the leather, and a "Tear" is already present. This will only lead to future tearing on the edge of the seat where the lacing is.

For bike seats and anything else that is subjected to high stress, it is recommended to always use round holes. The round hole is far less likely to split or tear, as a slit will.

Another point on round or slit holes, is that on wallets and such, certainly the slits look better on the "front" the side of the project you punched the slits from, but on the backside, they tend to almost always look a bit frazzled. Round holes on the other hand, can be punched on the front side, then flip the piece over, lay it onto your back piece, then punch your holes into that. This way you get very nice looking holes on both sides of the project.

As you say, 3/32" holes for 1/8" lace, always use a smaller hole than the lace you are using, this will help ti hide the holes once the lacing is complete.

NJBallslout,

Those 4 prong punches may look like they are the cats meow, but they tend to be somewhat of an annoyance. As Chief said, they tend to come loose and wobble. They also do not work well on tighter corners. I used to have one, and it's now relegated to the bottom of some tool box out in the garage. The rotary punches are okay for belt buckle holes or maybe 10 hole projects, but you will be throwing it at the wall after punching enough holes in a bike seat.

You are far better off to purchase a punch set, that you screw individual punches into it. Mark all your holes on the bike seat halves, then punch them individually. This way, as you are marking your holes around the edge, as you get close to the end, you can adjust the distance of each hole so you don't all of a sudden have a spot where one more hole won't fit and the space between the last two holes is too far apart.

I would suggest that rather than lacing your seat with double loop, you should do the Mexican round, as it is a far stronger lacing, and it will look much better when completed.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Beaverslayer

[NJBallsout]

Thanks for all of the replies. Im watching the Chief's videos on Mexican Round right now,

[Beaverslayer]

I didn't see your post about the Tandy Calf Lace....NO...NO...NO...do not use that stuff.

You can either purchase Tandys Kangaroo Lace, or order some from Y-Knot, Kangaroo lace is the strongest lace there is and is much easier than that calf lace to use.

[Chief31794]

electrathon,

I have to totally disagree with you on the slits for lacing on the project NJBallslout is doing. A bike seat is a high stress item, as it is being sat on all the time while being ridden down the road. By using slits, you are already "Slicing" the leather, and a "Tear" is already present. This will only lead to future tearing on the edge of the seat where the lacing is.

For bike seats and anything else that is subjected to high stress, it is recommended to always use round holes. The round hole is far less likely to split or tear, as a slit will.

Another point on round or slit holes, is that on wallets and such, certainly the slits look better on the "front" the side of the project you punched the slits from, but on the backside, they tend to almost always look a bit frazzled. Round holes on the other hand, can be punched on the front side, then flip the piece over, lay it onto your back piece, then punch your holes into that. This way you get very nice looking holes on both sides of the project.

As you say, 3/32" holes for 1/8" lace, always use a smaller hole than the lace you are using, this will help ti hide the holes once the lacing is complete.

NJBallslout,

Those 4 prong punches may look like they are the cats meow, but they tend to be somewhat of an annoyance. As Chief said, they tend to come loose and wobble. They also do not work well on tighter corners. I used to have one, and it's now relegated to the bottom of some tool box out in the garage. The rotary punches are okay for belt buckle holes or maybe 10 hole projects, but you will be throwing it at the wall after punching enough holes in a bike seat.

You are far better off to purchase a punch set, that you screw individual punches into it. Mark all your holes on the bike seat halves, then punch them individually. This way, as you are marking your holes around the edge, as you get close to the end, you can adjust the distance of each hole so you don't all of a sudden have a spot where one more hole won't fit and the space between the last two holes is too far apart.

I would suggest that rather than lacing your seat with double loop, you should do the Mexican round, as it is a far stronger lacing, and it will look much better when completed.

Good catch Beaverslayer, I didn't notice that he was talking about a bike seat. For that type of construction, definitely round holes and round braid (Mexican Basketweave). You get stronger construction with round braid as well since there are two pieces of lace going through each hole.

Chief

[Josiah]

1/4 inch kangaroo lace through 1/8 holes for solo seats. It is more expensive, but worth it. As to rotary punches, I have a CS Osborne one with no wobble and I like it alot. I have done 6 seats with it with no problem

[Bob Blea]

Thanks all! I've learned something about when to use round holes today.

Bob

[electrathon]

electrathon,

I have to totally disagree with you on the slits for lacing on the project NJBallslout is doing. A bike seat is a high stress item, as it is being sat on all the time while being ridden down the road. By using slits, you are already "Slicing" the leather, and a "Tear" is already present. This will only lead to future tearing on the edge of the seat where the lacing is.

For bike seats and anything else that is subjected to high stress, it is recommended to always use round holes. The round hole is far less likely to split or tear, as a slit will.

Another point on round or slit holes, is that on wallets and such, certainly the slits look better on the "front" the side of the project you punched the slits from, but on the backside, they tend to almost always look a bit frazzled. Round holes on the other hand, can be punched on the front side, then flip the piece over, lay it onto your back piece, then punch your holes into that. This way you get very nice looking holes on both sides of the project.

As you say, 3/32" holes for 1/8" lace, always use a smaller hole than the lace you are using, this will help ti hide the holes once the lacing is complete.

NJBallslout,

Those 4 prong punches may look like they are the cats meow, but they tend to be somewhat of an annoyance. As Chief said, they tend to come loose and wobble. They also do not work well on tighter corners. I used to have one, and it's now relegated to the bottom of some tool box out in the garage. The rotary punches are okay for belt buckle holes or maybe 10 hole projects, but you will be throwing it at the wall after punching enough holes in a bike seat.

You are far better off to purchase a punch set, that you screw individual punches into it. Mark all your holes on the bike seat halves, then punch them individually. This way, as you are marking your holes around the edge, as you get close to the end, you can adjust the distance of each hole so you don't all of a sudden have a spot where one more hole won't fit and the space between the last two holes is too far apart.

I would suggest that rather than lacing your seat with double loop, you should do the Mexican round, as it is a far stronger lacing, and it will look much better when completed.

................

I didn't see your post about the Tandy Calf Lace....NO...NO...NO...do not use that stuff.

You can either purchase Tandys Kangaroo Lace, or order some from Y-Knot, Kangaroo lace is the strongest lace there is and is much easier than that calf lace to use.

I missed the part that it was a bike seat, focused in on double loop lacing. I agree that on a bike seat round holes are the way to go. Also, double loop is bad, Mexican round braid is good. Almost always when you are using Mexican round braid you use round holes.

I do not agree though about the backside issue. I will post up a few pics showing the backside of a couple projects. I have something in my possesion that I am relacing (not my origional work) that round holes were used on so I will have the backside of how I lace and how it looks when done with holes. The "cleanness" issue is just as big of a deal to me on the back as on the front, To me, slots always win.

Also, ALWAYS use Kangeroo. If you want your work to last, use Kangeroo. Calf lace is good for practuce and not a lot more.

[Jax]

Hi I have read this topic & watched cheif's videos on the mexican basketweave & like the look of it very much, I have a bag I'm making at the moment & am thinking of doing this lacing on it but have a question. As I have lined the bag I want to lace all the edges but how would I do the gusset ends? All the instructions I have found require a complete circuit rather than a different start & finish point is there a way of starting & finishing a straight edge or will I have to stick with a double loop lace as originally planned?

Many thanks in anticipation & advance

Jax

[Beaverslayer]

Jax, Mexican round braid can be used in a straight line, and ended without having to complete a full circuit.

As you have noticed, there isn't anything that shows how to end, just join the circuit. What I do, is once I am at the end, I just continue on, using the last hole a second time as if I were to be continuing lacing. Once the lacing has filled all the holes and been over/under all the stitches so there is no "bald" spots, I just run the tail back under the lace about 4 or 5 rows back, slip it outside the lace, pull it hard and cut the lace off.

You can do the same on the beginning of your lace, just reversing the normal order.

Somewhere I have pictures of what I speak of, I'll try and find them and upload them here.

[Chief31794]

Hi I have read this topic & watched cheif's videos on the mexican basketweave & like the look of it very much, I have a bag I'm making at the moment & am thinking of doing this lacing on it but have a question. As I have lined the bag I want to lace all the edges but how would I do the gusset ends? All the instructions I have found require a complete circuit rather than a different start & finish point is there a way of starting & finishing a straight edge or will I have to stick with a double loop lace as originally planned?

Many thanks in anticipation & advance

Jax

Jax,

Another member here asked me the same question in a PM, here is the answer I provided Cog.

Cogs, I do open ended runs with the Mexican Braid. It isn't real difficult and looks really good. In my video I started in hole one and left about 1". To do an Open End, start in 1, leave about 1-1/2", when you come out of the back go back through hole 1 from the front, take the end you left out and run it along the top of the edge in the direction you will be stitching. Then continue stitching normally, stitching the end under the braid laying flat. when you get to the end, go in the front of the last hole, come out the back stitch back 2 stitches just as normal, that will complete the 2nd hole from the corner, when you come out the back go under the nearest lace as always then go back into the front of the last hole half-way and come out through the braid a couple of stitches back. If there is no pieces to go through then come completely out the back of the last hole and slide the lace back under the laces on the back side and take it back about 2-3 stitches and bring it out, either way trim off the excess and it will stay permanent. I hope this helps, it's harder to explain than to show. Let me know if you need any clarification on any of these. I would try a small test piece before tackling the holster just to get familiar with the technique.

Jax,

For a gussett, I use this technique on the top of each gusset, then when it is assembled the braid on the gussett and the braid on the edges of the main portion of the purse will look good together.

Chief

Edited December 5, 2012 by Chief31794

[NJBallsout]

Well, I finished the pan, welded the studs in, riveted the leather to the bottom and glued and shaped the seat foam. Now Im just waiting for the kangaroo lace and needles to arrive, then I can finish it up. Ill update and upload some pics as I progress. Thanks for all of the great info.

On a side note, Im using baseball glove leather to cover this seat. Its a beautiful brown leather, just thinner then a tradiational seat leather that would be tooled.

[electrathon]

On a side note, Im using baseball glove leather to cover this seat. Its a beautiful brown leather, just thinner then a tradiational seat leather that would be tooled.

Seems like a good idea. Baseball gloves are for hanging onto balls.

[NJBallsout]

Well played electrathon... And seeing that its a seat Im making, the LAST thing I need are balls falling off.

[Jax]

Thank you so much for the info Beaverslayer & Chief, Im going to get some scrap out & have a go I love the look of this style of lacing.

NJBallsout good luck with your seat & thanks for starting the post, I'd never considered this lacing if you hadnt asked your question

[ITCL]

I use 1/8 lace a lot in 3/32 holes.The lace fills the hole well and looks good to.

[electrathon]

Good example of the difference between holes verses slits.