Copper Rivets...

[thekid77]

Hey friends, I need your help...

I am learning to set copper rivets and have run into a problem...

I seem to be bending the post when I am peening it down.

This is my workflow for setting the rivets:

1. Punch the hole (1/8") so there is no play between the leather and the post.

2. Insert the rivet and place the washer on.

3. Use the setter tool to push the washer down tight.

4. Use nippers to clip off the excess post (I leave about 1/8" of post sticking up above the washer)

5. Use ball peen hammer to spread the post over the washer.

Here is a pic of what happened--I noticed that the washer on top is offset in relation to the rivet head on the bottom. The only thing I can think of is that I am bending the post as I'm hammering it down over the washer...I wasn't having this problem before when I was using a lighter hammer. I switched to a heavier hammer and this started happening.

The reason I switched to a heavier hammer is because I read about copper "work hardening" if you hammer it too much, so I switched to a heavier hammer hoping to get the job done in less strikes to avoid this...

Thanks in advance for all of your help!!!

[Chief31794]

I don't think the rivets bent, the minor distortion is from depressing the layers of leather between the rivet head and the burr. Pretty normal. Use the lighter hammer and stop hitting when the burr is tight on the leather, then snip and peen if the minor distortion is unacceptable for the project you're working on. These are very strong, depending on the appllication, you may not need quite that much strengt and a tubular rivet might do just as well.

Chief

[RavenAus]

I've had the same issue and to be honest I find a lighter hammer and less force per hit works better. Work hardening does occur but it isn't going to prevent you from peening the end over. Light hits in a circular pattern do the job. Hard hits do just tend to bend the shaft, especially on the light rivets

[dirtclod]

Could be that your rivet is to long for the thickness your riveting and their bending when you set the burr. If that's the case start the burr then cut some of the rivet off and set like normal

[Dwight]

You may use a different tool than mine, . . . but I use the two piece rivet and washer, . . . and the tool looks sorta like a hunk of scrap steel about 3 inches long, 1 inch wide, and about 3/8 inch thick.

It has a hole in the bottom that allows me to place it on the copper rivet and very satisfactorily, but slowly, pound down the copper washer until it makes contact with the top piece of leather.

I then cut off my copper rivet about 3/32 above the washer with a pair of side cutters. I very carefully peen with about a 6 oz ball peen until I have the rivet more or less mushroomed, . . . then I pick up my tool again, . . . it has a small rounded indentation in the bottom, . . . I use this to turn the top end of my copper rivet into a perfectly round, domed, mushroom head.

An old saddler showed me to use it that way, . . . and my posts never buckle or twist or bend, . . . UNLESS I am going through a really thick layer and I hammer on it too hard.

The ball peen is only used to mushroom the very top of the rivet.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Northmount]

My dad taught me how to set copper rivets about 50 years ago. I was trying to set them in just a few swats.

After setting the burr, and trimming to less than 1/8", tap gently with the ball end of the hammer in a circular motion as noted above by RavenAus. It's the heavy hammering that does the damage. With a little care, you can make a real nice rivet job.

Tom

[thekid77]

Hey guys!!! I knew I could count on you for excellent advise!!!

Chief-ok, great, that's a relief!

Raven & Tom-I have been using a much lighter weight ball peen hammer and have had awesome results so far )

Dirt-I'm snipping the rivet post as close as the nippers can get (1/8" or less)

Dwight-I'm using the Tandy setter/domer, and the ball peen has been working great for establishing the initial mushroom...

Thanks everybody, God bless you all for sharing your knowledge of this wonderful trade ))

[thekid77]

Thank you all again....just thought I'd share a pic of how it turned out thanks to your advice

[Alvetjarn]

Looking good! In all things i do I often go in to hard on the subject and once again it shows that a bit delicacy is better

A question on the topic of Copper Rivets - Will they not stain and turn green as copper normally does ?

[thekid77]

Thanks Alvetjarn, I'm certainly no expert but I believe it can take 10-20+ years before copper develops the green patina under "normal conditions"...somebody please correct me if I'm wrong

I've heard that the process can be sped up by using certain chemical solutions on the copper but I don't know much else

[Northmount]

Looking good! In all things i do I often go in to hard on the subject and once again it shows that a bit delicacy is better

A question on the topic of Copper Rivets - Will they not stain and turn green as copper normally does ?

Takes moisture. Other chemicals and contaminants will hasten the process. If it is kept dry, no green!

Tom

[footrat]

I've had this same issue, ESPECIALLY when working with double or triple layers of 13/15 oz. skirting. The trick, as others have said, is to start the peening with the round ball of a ball peen hammer.

The issues I have with this, when I have issues, are that the heavy leather is usually folded around a ring or buckle, and it wants to spring back up while hammering. This pushes the burr off the rivet, and/or drives the rivet through the burr. The way to avoid this is to make SURE the flat part of your rivet is solidly on your impact surface (marble/granite slab, anvil, steel, whatever), try to hold or clamp the leather layers together, and use the peening process to push the burr back down. As you roll the top edges of the rivet over, they will push the burr back down tightly against the leather.

If you do this, and don't try to peen it down in three hits, you'll have no problems making pretty rivets. I use the ball peen hammer to pretty much dome the rivet all the way down, then I use the peening tool to clean it up and make it pretty. I come back with a smooth-faced claw hammer and give the rivet one or two good smacks on top to flatten the top of the dome a bit. I don't smash the whole thing flat like the picture above. If you smash it flat, sometimes the leather gives too much, and the rivet ends up with a dome in the middle of a concave, sunken burr.

And about green rivets- I have some that have already tarnished underneath, where the rivet contacts the leather. There's a green fringe around the edge. This has only happened on a couple rivets that are on some very hard-use items that have been used for firefighting.