Cant Angle Vs. Gun Length

[SooperJake]

When is the cant angle "too much"?

I just finished a holster for an XDM 4.5" length barrel set at 25° cant and I found it quite awkward to draw smoothly. Prior to that I made one for an M&P compact at around 23° and it draws a lot easier, I assume because of the shorter length, more than the 2° angle difference. Still, 23 seems like too much.

What is your take?

[Colt Hammerless]

I carry my 5 inch 1911 with 30 degrees forward rake. It is slower on the draw than a 15 degree but not by a lot. It's the only way I can conceal the grip on that thing. That 30 degree rake is the difference between having the gun and not having it, which is the slowest draw of all. I have a holster for a Colt 1903 that has about 35 to 37 degrees (I meant for it to be 30, it was the first holster I made) and it draws faster than the 1911, so the barrel length does play a role to be sure. It also makes a difference where you carry it. If you carry it at 3:00 it's going to be a more awkward draw than if you have it at 4:30,(with a lot of rake.) If you have 10 to 15 degrees of rake, it will be a bit more awkward to draw from 4:30 than it will be from 3:00. I also made a holster for a 4.5 inch XDM, and set the rake at 23 degrees. It was a bit slow, but not too bad. The grip on that thing is pretty big, and this was a convertible IWB/OWB that the customer was going to use for concealed carry, so it needed to be hidden. Unless your body type allows you to conceal a big gun with less rake, you're going to have to accept a slower draw, or wear bulkier clothing to hide it with less rake. I'm in AZ (not the cool parts) and can't wear heavy clothing. Everything's a compromise.

[samcolt45]

SJ,

I was beginning to think I was the only per here interest in precise cant angles. Although my interest centers around being wheelchair bound. For me, a strong side holster with a 15-degree FBI cant isn't enough. I'm still experimenting to find my magic number. So far, I can say with certainty the sweet spot for me is between 20 and 25 degrees. However, although I'm merely telling you what has worked for me, the optimum carry angle involves many factors, such as what type of pistol the holster is for: make, model, barrel length, how and wher you wish to position it on your belt, your build and weight, whether you are constantly standing or seated throughout your daily routine.

It might sound foolish, but, just like buying shoes, the best carry angle is the one that not only feels right but meets your needs, too.

Samcolt45

[olds cool]

Colt, do you have a pic of you wearing your 1911? I just finished my first 1911 holster using the Adams Leatherworks pattern and I'm running into the same problem, trying to hide the grip. I'd like to see just how yours sits to get a better idea of where the grip would sit in relation to my love handles. While I enjoyed making the holster, and it won't be my last, I don't want to make 20 of them for myself just to figure out the best angle. Sure I could just hold the gun up to my waist and see where I like it but things change quite a bit as you sit down, bend over, etc.

[SooperJake]

After setting the two holsters side by side today I realized one thing: My 25° cant angle is actually 28.5°...Not sure how I managed that but I checked the pattern to confirm the angle. I made the high angle for the same reason as Colt stated, to get the big grip up out of sight. That part works great and it isn't too bad when seated either. One of those trade offs I guess. On a recent IWB I made for my nephew's SR40c, I also tried a new thing (new to me) : Molding the gun on an angle so that the front protrudes in the front and the body side protrudes in the back. Not sure if that is well explained but the grip is welded against the body. Kind of a cross between a flat back mold and a front mold. Not sure about how it will work in the seated position. I need to get the pistol back for some testing.

[olds cool]

I'd like to see that one too SJ as I can't quite picture your description. I'll be following this thread for sure. You guys are right on the same wavelength that I've been on for the last week since finishing mine. Being new to holsters, I look forward to picking the brains of the more experienced. Hope you don't think of me as jacking your thread but rather a very interested newbie with the same questions.

[samcolt45]

My homemade slide for my 2-inch, custom Colt Fitz Special chambered in .45 Colt.

Even in my wheelchair, the 25-degree forward rake works provides easy and quick access.

Samcolt45

[malabar]

Holster cant is not so much about concealment as it is about presentation. A well-designed concealment holster is intended to be deployed in a specific way, and the cant reflects that. Most of my holsters have zero cant, because they are carried at about 3:30 and designed to be used with a vertical draw to retention position -- which is the current "best thinking" about tactical deployment of sidearm.

A strong-side holster carried anywhere from centerline to about 3:30 can be easily be drawn vertically by most people. But whenever you start moving outside that range, cant becomes more important. All SOB and behind-the-hip holsters have significant cant because it aids in the presentation of the pistol -- you would need exceptional mobility t be able to draw vertically from behind your back.

For that same reason, all crossdraw holsters have significant cant -- it's needed to get the gun out of the holster.

Finally, the user's mobility (range of motion) may dictate the cant for a particular holster.

Cant can indeed increase or decrease the concealability of a pistol, but that should not be the primary consideration.

tk

Edited April 24, 2013 by malabar

[renegadelizard]

Cant will/can also either increase or decrease the comfort level of the holster, depending upon the size of the pistol, the size of the wearer, and the shae of the wearer....this, comfort that it, i think is paramount to all other considerations..not everyone is overly concerned with tactical thinking (most are to busy trying to look tacticool), and many are not overly concerned about concealment, but a holster that is uncomfortable will not be worn...i usually have a customer stick the gun in their waistband when possible, and let them determine what works for their body type/gun size...for me, standard is something that the big box holster makers do..we do custom holsters..

Edited April 25, 2013 by renegadelizard

[Colt Hammerless]

Olds Cool,

I don't have a pic of me wearing it. I'll try to get someone to snap a pic of me with it on in the next day or so.

Paul

[Colt Hammerless]

Finally got a pic. I took it myself in the mirror, hence it looks like a lefty holster.

Paul

[Colt Hammerless]

And here's another.

[olds cool]

You said that was at 30* right? Looks like it pulls the grip up out of sight and moves the pointy section, around the hammer, so that it stabs a little less. I need to make myself another one anyways. Maybe I'll play with this angle and see how I like it cause at the moment I'm kinda wondering if this will ever be a comfortable carry gun. Malabar made some good points about presentation but my primary concern is the comfort level. I don't care if I can outdraw the fastest shooter in the country, if it's constantly poking and rubbing the wrong way, I'm not going to keep it on my waist. If I get something that I can wear without constantly grabbing it and readjusting, then I'll figure out the presentation from there. It all comes down to practice and building muscle memory.

Edited May 1, 2013 by olds cool

[SooperJake]

Colt, are those clips from Tandy?

[Colt Hammerless]

They're from RMB Custom Leather. Got them while ordering a blue gun from him. I'm almost out and need to get some more. I know Tandy sells some that are similar, but I've never used them.

Paul