Invasion Report post Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) I am a new to the world of leather craft and trying to get to grips with stitching. I am from the UK and it seems as if there are different styles between the US and UK. In the UK it seems to me the style is like saw teeth with no groove for it to run down and very stylised in appearance In the US the stitching seems straight and recessed in a groove. Are there any advantages, or uses, of one over the other ? Edited May 1, 2013 by Invasion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thekid77 Report post Posted May 1, 2013 Hey Invasion, I'm new to leatherwork also, and you're right--the UK and US feature some variations in the leatherwork tradition... The stitch groover does have its place for use in leatherwork. The tool makes a channel in the leather so that the thread lies in that recess, thus giving added protection to threads that lie in areas that will receive abrasion...this would be one of the advantages of using the groover... The disadvantages of using the groover are that the channel cut by the groover causes the thread to lose its wavy stylish appearance (although whether the wavy look is desirable or not varies from one person to the next)... The groover can't be used on really thin leathers--it will just cut right through or weaken the thin leather so much that the threads could just tear out... The groover can be over-used though--unless the area to be stitched is going to receive abrasion, from a functional standpoint, there is not much reason to use the groover. There is a gentleman named Nigel Armitage (Dangerous Beans on this forum) who is a master leathersmith and is part of the Guild of Master Craftsmen in the UK...here is a link to his youtube channel...he is very knowledgeable and offers help to us beginners: http://www.youtube.c...er/Nordicbadger Good Luck!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Invasion Report post Posted May 4, 2013 Hey Invasion, I'm new to leatherwork also, and you're right--the UK and US feature some variations in the leatherwork tradition... The stitch groover does have its place for use in leatherwork. The tool makes a channel in the leather so that the thread lies in that recess, thus giving added protection to threads that lie in areas that will receive abrasion...this would be one of the advantages of using the groover... The disadvantages of using the groover are that the channel cut by the groover causes the thread to lose its wavy stylish appearance (although whether the wavy look is desirable or not varies from one person to the next)... The groover can't be used on really thin leathers--it will just cut right through or weaken the thin leather so much that the threads could just tear out... The groover can be over-used though--unless the area to be stitched is going to receive abrasion, from a functional standpoint, there is not much reason to use the groover. There is a gentleman named Nigel Armitage (Dangerous Beans on this forum) who is a master leathersmith and is part of the Guild of Master Craftsmen in the UK...here is a link to his youtube channel...he is very knowledgeable and offers help to us beginners: http://www.youtube.c...er/Nordicbadger Good Luck!!! Thanks for the info I think I did read someplace that putting stitching in a groove was becoming very popular but overdone....kind of like a fashion thing at the moment. Nigel Armatige all I can say is wow....his work is amazing! I have to get my stitching like his no matter how long it takes me...which may be some time Thanks again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thekid77 Report post Posted May 4, 2013 Any time invasion, and you're spot on about the trend with the groover... Do yourself a favor and contact Nigel when you need help, he is extremely generous with his knowledge... Good Luck!!! =) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matt S Report post Posted May 8, 2013 I have a theory that a large part of the difference is due to Al Stohlman and Tandy/Craftool with the rise of the hobby maker. Where a stitch needs to be protected from rub in English, Australian or Western saddlery, a concealed stitch is used (cut with a knife), or a channel gouged with a race (racer). These tools are simple; can be made by any competent smith, edges can easily be sharpened, and have multiple uses. Not as easy to use without training as a Tandy groover. These latter tools are the opposite; most any idiot can pick one up and use it (even me), but a time-served master saddler would no doubt prefer a proper tool, even if it did take them a while to learn how to use when apprentice. To sink a stitch line in a groove can neaten its appearance somewhat by pulling it into a straight line, which is useful to those not hugely experienced in hand stitching. But it slows things, and I believe to be of limited use to someone who has learned by long experience and good tutelage to stitch neatly and well, especially with a pricking iron. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
St8LineGunsmith Report post Posted May 8, 2013 I dont see a diffrence between UK and US Al Stholman Is one of the foremost accomplished leather craftsman who ever existed. the methods and procedures he taught are tried and true methods that are the standard in the leathercraft world wide Actually Al Stohlmans book the art of hand sewing leather is well illustrated on how to make a proper saddle stitch and how to use the awl and needles practically identical to how Nige shows how it is done in his videos. the appearance of the stitch is more dependent on whether the awl hole is angled and how the stitch is applied rather than whether or not there is a stitch groove. the stitch angle is also dependent on whether a angled diamond awl is used at the proper 45 degree angle or whether a round hole is made into the leather. Long before there were stitching groovers made by crafttool there were scratch compass made by CS Osborne and other companys used to make the groove western saddle and Tack makers have been using stitch grooves for a very long time for the sole practical purpose to eleminate thread wear it originally had nothing to do with cosmetic appearance. a good old scratch compass is a much better option because it can be used for other applications. I can get the angled stitch with or without a groove as long as my awl holes are correctly inserted and I follow the correct stitching procedure. I really dont think there are any descrepencies between UK and US in how a proper stitch is applied there are however descrepencies on what an individual preceives as the proper stitching procedure. I do however agree the stitch groove don't need to be used on every application such as thin leather. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
