Needles breaking at the eye

[BradB]

I am having a problem with needles breaking off at the eye, this has happened on a bunch of different needles and I can not figure out if it is me doing something wrong, crappy metal the needles are made out of or what... Has anyone ever had this problem and if so how did you fix it?

[rdb]

There's actually quite a few reasons, not to forget crappy metal....

Holes too small, making you force the needle through, bending it...snap

Too big of a knot at the bottom of the needle, forcing you to add strength to pull through...snap

Needle too small for thickness of leather...snap

Use a harness needle on belt type thickness.

Use a smaller needle (therefore more brittle) on thin leathers.

Now, ask me how I know...lol

I'm sure the other handsewers can chime in with more precise info, like what they call all those different needles...lol

[ClayB]

if it's the needles with the big long eyes, I HATE them. I used to break them all the time. Go to a needle with a lot smaller eye and it will work a lot better

[calanneh]

I am having a problem with needles breaking off at the eye, this has happened on a bunch of different needles and I can not figure out if it is me doing something wrong, crappy metal the needles are made out of or what... Has anyone ever had this problem and if so how did you fix it?

Been there...done that....over and over and over...........

So if lotsa broken needles means the hole is too small or the needle is too big.....

Whats it mean when you have to use pliers to pull it thru??

Most of my leatherwork is reenactment gear or tool cases so I use wax thread instead of lacing cuz I want good tight stitches. I tend to use a awl to punch holes by hand instead of a punch. This makes it tight and does cause a few broken needles......

What I can tell ya about using the pliers to pull the needle.....grip it jsut above the eye.....and if u grip the eye, grip the flat part....

cal

[MADMAX22]

Ill add that some needles seem to be more brittle then others. I still havent found all the best ones yet as it seems that hand sewing hard stuff no longer requires a good quality needle.

If you need extra strength to pull thru the leather make darn sure you pull straight. Once you deflect in any direction you are gonna break your needles. If you use plyers make sure you arent bending or applying pressure at a bad angle on the needle which is the same effect as bending it when you pull it thru the leather.

Just my experiences so far but Im still a amatuer.

[BradB]

Thanks Guys, in this instance I punched the holes instead of using the awl and was using pliers, maybe the hole was to small... If I made them any bigger though it would look weird.... Guess I will just go back to using the awl!

I still think the needles are made out of crap metal, or as Grandpa used to call it Pot Metal(whatever the heck that is)!

It was the needled with the big eye holes, I have to go buy more tomorrow so I will see if I can find some without the bigger holes.

Thanks Again!

[whinewine]

Thanks Guys, in this instance I punched the holes instead of using the awl and was using pliers, maybe the hole was to small... If I made them any bigger though it would look weird.... Guess I will just go back to using the awl!

I still think the needles are made out of crap metal, or as Grandpa used to call it Pot Metal(whatever the heck that is)!

It was the needled with the big eye holes, I have to go buy more tomorrow so I will see if I can find some without the bigger holes.

Thanks Again!

Brad:

Unfortunately, the harness needles with the big eyes break very easily (other than the inexpensive steel, the metal in the eye area is so thin that there is so little strength= therefore, bending & breakage...). I buy the needles by the hundred, rather than per 10. It's cheaper & better that way.

Glovers needles, on the other hand, (the sharp, 3-corner ones) have the small eyes & will outlast the harness needles a thousand to one. I still have some from the '70s. I buy those in packs of 25.

What you may want to try are similar needles, but with the small eyes (I think, but I'm not exactly sure, that they're called 'tapestry needles'- a good sewing shop should carry them in different sizes). They do have sharp points, but they're easy to make dull.

BTW, 'pot metal' is the metal that used to be used for hood ornaments, window-winding handles & car logos on '40s. '50s & '60s automobiles (maybe later). Also known as 'white metal'.

[Hilly]

When I first started sewing leather, I used the needles included in those Tandy kits... Broke every single one within 5 stitiches. Switched to harness needles, and have never had a problem since. You can drive em in like nails, and they won't break. The only time I've ever broken one was when I tried intentionally to bend it, and it broke in half, not at the eye.

You can get them in different sizes, but the smaller the needle size, the smaller the eye, too, so you need to use thread size to match the needle eye. Made a big difference in my hand stitching now that I have choices other than that "rope" thread that Tandy sells

I've also tried glover's needles, but they were too sharp, and if your aim was off the tiniest bit, they'd stick in the edge of the hole.

Glover's needles do work well with thinner leathers, though, such as garment weight.

[BradB]

Thanks again for the response and the help/suggestions... Now to build up calluses or make some gloves or covering on my hands, they are so sore from sewing last night I can hardly type lol. I know there was a thread on here about different ways to cover your hands... Off to search for that... this site is great!!

[MADMAX22]

Thanks Guys, in this instance I punched the holes instead of using the awl and was using pliers, maybe the hole was to small... If I made them any bigger though it would look weird.... Guess I will just go back to using the awl!

I still think the needles are made out of crap metal, or as Grandpa used to call it Pot Metal(whatever the heck that is)!

It was the needled with the big eye holes, I have to go buy more tomorrow so I will see if I can find some without the bigger holes.

Thanks Again!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal

[BradB]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal

Ah hah thanks!

BTW, 'pot metal' is the metal that used to be used for hood ornaments, window-winding handles & car logos on '40s. '50s & '60s automobiles (maybe later). Also known as 'white metal'.

Thanks!

[Jordan]

Bandaids on your fingers before you start and those long eye's break at the slightest wrong angle when pulling them through the leather. Problem is thin metal of the eye just at the point that you are most likely to pull it out at an odd angle.

[jimsaddler]

Thanks again for the response and the help/suggestions... Now to build up calluses or make some gloves or covering on my hands, they are so sore from sewing last night I can hardly type lol. I know there was a thread on here about different ways to cover your hands... Off to search for that... this site is great!!

I've watched quite a few comments about the different needles used for sewing Leather, so the following might be of assistance as it is well and truely tested by experience.

" If sewing Leather of any substance over 2 mm, only use Egg Eyed Harness Needles and a good Harness Awl". They have been developed over many centuries for this purpose. Breakages should be minimul as you should not have too much strain on the Eye. It boils down to having the right size needle for the Thread. If the needle is too small the lump at the eye will cause the eye to break when you try to force it through the hole. The same goes for the Awl Blade, it should match the Needles. Pliers should not be needed, the same goes for finger guards or Gloves. Use the right tools for the Job! Sore fingers are only tempory, start out steady and get your Hands toughened up over a week or so. They will! Piddle on them to speed things up.

I've seen many different types of Needles sold as Leather Needle, most have a long eye. There s no way that they should be labeled as Suitable for sewing Leather. Glorified Dressmakers Needles is all they are.

Glovers Needles are just that and should be used for light self piercing jobs. They are used singly for sewing and never go through the same hole again with them or you will cut the thread.

Harness Needles have a rounded point for this reason, so as to avoid piercing the thread in the Hole. The Awl Blade should be just big enough to allow the threaded Needles to be pased through reasonably smoothly, but not too big.

Please have a Happy Day.

Kindest Regards.

Jim.

[Hilly]

I've watched quite a few comments about the different needles used for sewing Leather, so the following might be of assistance as it is well and truely tested by experience.

" If sewing Leather of any substance over 2 mm, only use Egg Eyed Harness Needles and a good Harness Awl". They have been developed over many centuries for this purpose. Breakages should be minimul as you should not have too much strain on the Eye. It boils down to having the right size needle for the Thread. If the needle is too small the lump at the eye will cause the eye to break when you try to force it through the hole. The same goes for the Awl Blade, it should match the Needles. Pliers should not be needed, the same goes for finger guards or Gloves. Use the right tools for the Job! Sore fingers are only tempory, start out steady and get your Hands toughened up over a week or so. They will! Piddle on them to speed things up.

I've seen many different types of Needles sold as Leather Needle, most have a long eye. There s no way that they should be labeled as Suitable for sewing Leather. Glorified Dressmakers Needles is all they are.

Glovers Needles are just that and should be used for light self piercing jobs. They are used singly for sewing and never go through the same hole again with them or you will cut the thread.

Harness Needles have a rounded point for this reason, so as to avoid piercing the thread in the Hole. The Awl Blade should be just big enough to allow the threaded Needles to be pased through reasonably smoothly, but not too big.

Please have a Happy Day.

Kindest Regards.

Jim.

Hi Jim. I have always enjoyed reading your replies, and learning from them. Thanks you.

Can you recommend a source for harness awls? I currently have only a diamond point awl from C.S.Osborn, but would really like

to try a different (or a couple different) awls.

Hilly

[Jordan]

Silly me I thought that only worked with jellyfish stings

[jimsaddler]

Hi Jim. I have always enjoyed reading your replies, and learning from them. Thanks you.

Can you recommend a source for harness awls? I currently have only a diamond point awl from C.S.Osborn, but would really like

to try a different (or a couple different) awls.

Hilly

Hi Hilly

Thankyou so much for your kind comments. Unfortunately I haven't had to buy any for years as I collected so many over the years I'm well stocked. Plus I make my own out of old blades that are too big. But if you can E-mail me a postal address I'll send you a special Blade for #12 sewing that is older than me to try. A mate gave me these a while ago and I have a spare.

A good tip is to watch out for old Hardware stores closing down, as amongst the old stock sometimes there are old Awl Blades. I have a lot of these from sources like this. Some are huge, but the Steel is very good so I slowly grind them down to suit what want. As I've mentioned before Good Bicycle Spokes also make good fine Awls when ground to a flat diamond.

Always make the diamond profile flat to give a neat slope to your row of stitches.

By the way I'm trying to get a short movie of Hand Sewing and Thread making made (Slowly) for those that are interested. I'll try to get it posted on my new Website when it's up and running.

Kindest Regards.

Jim.

[TwinOaks]

I wonder if annealing the needles would do any good.

[Hilly]

Hi Hilly

Thankyou so much for your kind comments. Unfortunately I haven't had to buy any for years as I collected so many over the years I'm well stocked. Plus I make my own out of old blades that are too big. But if you can E-mail me a postal address I'll send you a special Blade for #12 sewing that is older than me to try. A mate gave me these a while ago and I have a spare.

A good tip is to watch out for old Hardware stores closing down, as amongst the old stock sometimes there are old Awl Blades. I have a lot of these from sources like this. Some are huge, but the Steel is very good so I slowly grind them down to suit what want. As I've mentioned before Good Bicycle Spokes also make good fine Awls when ground to a flat diamond.

Always make the diamond profile flat to give a neat slope to your row of stitches.

By the way I'm trying to get a short movie of Hand Sewing and Thread making made (Slowly) for those that are interested. I'll try to get it posted on my new Website when it's up and running.

Kindest Regards.

Jim.

PM sent!

[BradB]

Silly me I thought that only worked with jellyfish stings

I thought it was for athletes foot!!

I've watched quite a few comments about the different needles used for sewing Leather, so the following might be of assistance as it is well and truely tested by experience." If sewing Leather of any substance over 2 mm, only use Egg Eyed Harness Needles and a good Harness Awl". They have been developed over many centuries for this purpose. Breakages should be minimul as you should not have too much strain on the Eye. It boils down to having the right size needle for the Thread. If the needle is too small the lump at the eye will cause the eye to break when you try to force it through the hole. The same goes for the Awl Blade, it should match the Needles. Pliers should not be needed, the same goes for finger guards or Gloves. Use the right tools for the Job! Sore fingers are only tempory, start out steady and get your Hands toughened up over a week or so. They will! Piddle on them to speed things up. I've seen many different types of Needles sold as Leather Needle, most have a long eye. There s no way that they should be labeled as Suitable for sewing Leather. Glorified Dressmakers Needles is all they are. Glovers Needles are just that and should be used for light self piercing jobs. They are used singly for sewing and never go through the same hole again with them or you will cut the thread. Harness Needles have a rounded point for this reason, so as to avoid piercing the thread in the Hole. The Awl Blade should be just big enough to allow the threaded Needles to be pased through reasonably smoothly, but not too big. Please have a Happy Day. Kindest Regards. Jim.

Thanks for the advice Jim!!! What is your website address by the way??

[Tracker]

I just buy lots of needles and don't worry about it too much.

[Hennessy]

I just buy lots of needles and don't worry about it too much.

i started out in sydney australia many moons ago,i worked in two old prestigious saddle shops and still recall a bit of wot i learned.we made a lot of thread 4 5 6 or more strands.we allways tapered the ends down in a long taper n beeswax'd thread good down to the ends.when we threaded th needle, the thread was thin at the eye making th needle easier to pull through.when i hand sew cantles or seams i get my waxed thread in 5 or 6 strand hold it on my bench n pull it under a knife blade, feathering down the ends for 6inches or a li'l less then re wax th ends heavy n thread needles to hang in th taper area, it helps when passing thru holes eh adios n hoo roo pete

[Ladybug]

I also agree with the egg eye harness needles. I always bought tapestry needles, but they broke all the time or bent so bad you could sew in circles with them. The egg eyes are much more course and don't hardly ever bend. They are much more difficult to thread. I'll have to give the tapering a try. Thanks for the great idea.

JoAnn