Shell Cordovan Belts

[antipaladin]

I have 3 perfect Horweens Grade 1 Black Cordovan

hides from Siegels. I've made some great watchbands out

of a couple of other 2nd grade cordovan scraps, but I'm

dying to make a cordovan dress belt. I've seen some

beautiful ones with the 2 or 3 shell strips sewn onto a

bottom layer of bridle. The only problem is that every time

I pick up my strap cutter and look at the cordovan my hands

start to shake like I'm skinny dipping in December. This stuff

is expensive even when you can get it...which isn't often if

you don't have a commercial account with Horweens.

Anyone have experience working with shell cordovan for a large

project? I don't want to screw it up and end up with $500 in scraps.

Edited September 14, 2008 by antipaladin

[Davy]

Cordovan ? Whats that ? I've only ever heard that term used once by one person , in reference to edge lacing , but I'm not sure he knew what he was talking about .

[Ian]

Cordovan ? Whats that ? I've only ever heard that term used once by one person , in reference to edge lacing , but I'm not sure he knew what he was talking about .

Horse hide

[whinewine]

Horse hide

specifically, a certain part of the horse (the hindquarters, I believe, if I'm not mistaken)

russ

[Kevin]

I may be wrong, but I was led to believe it is the muscle that a horse can shake flies off with, in isolated areas of the skin. I hope that is worded understandably. Kevin

[whinewine]

I may be wrong, but I was led to believe it is the muscle that a horse can shake flies off with, in isolated areas of the skin. I hope that is worded understandably. Kevin

Basically, it's part of what you see in the horse trailers going down the road (once I saw a sign on the back of a horse trailer that said: "Don't be what you're looking at").

[antipaladin]

Shell Cordovan is about the highest end "leather" out there. It's the tanned subcutaneous butt muscle of a horse, so you get two "shells" from each horse. It is tightly grained and burnishes very well, getting better with age. Extremely "old school" barber strops used it, and high end shoes still do today. ("Alden" shoes for example). Some holster makers still use it as well for custom belts, etc. (www.mitchrosen.com for one example). Because we don't slaughter horses in the US for food, and it's illegal to slaughter horses simply for their hides, Cordovan is extremely hard to come by in the USA. There is, in fact, only one Tannery that produces it here. Horweens.

It is different from standard horsehide, which is also more tightly grained than cowhide but still just the tanned hide. There is a never ending debate around the relative superiority of cowhide vs horsehide for holsters.

[rdb]

Back in the 70s, The shells were my preferred belt strap. Believe it or not, but in those days $10 was a very expensive belt, which is what I charged for the shell belts. Generally people got $6-8 for cow. Boston had a "Leather District" and I had my choices of half a dozen suppliers. Seigel's and Berman's were the primaries. As you know, Seigel's is now in CA., and Berman's does only finished goods.

The shells worked up just as easy as any moo moo butts, and I would not doubt that a few of those belts are still around after 40 years.

[bruce johnson]

I'd like to see some cordovan sometime. I was thinking that shell cordovan was a thinner leather. The "horse butts" are left over after the shell is removed, and it is horse butts used for holsters? The one horse butt I had was about 8/9 oz. The hard roll vs. soft roll horse butts has to do with the amount of pressure they apply to them to compress. Ringing a bell with anyone? I talked to an old guy a while back that likes the hard roll horse butts for lining monel and brass bound stirrups.

[antipaladin]

Bruce, I'll take some pictures of the shells I just bought and post them.

[Timbo]

........as far as horse butts go, I make everything I can out of them. I have had hard rolled but stick with the soft rolled. They are a very tight grain and will by far outlast cowhide. They are never ever "fuzzy" on the backs and edges like a lot of cow. You can slick the edges to glass smooth and they will stay that way, where as alot of cow will lose its slick edges, horse edges get better and better with age. If I could buy a half hide tanned like the horse butts I would for sure do it and I would stick with it exclusively.....for some things.........down side is that it does not wet mold as well as cowhide....sometimes not at all. But it does tool beautifully. Swivel knives are a little tough to use on some of it though.

.....sorry for leading the topic further astray.

Timbo

[antipaladin]

Timbo,

All I've ever been able to find are the horse butts. I've seen

beautiful Horsehide jackets so I know other cuts must be

around. Any idea where someone could purchase any?

[Timbo]

Timbo,

All I've ever been able to find are the horse butts. I've seen

beautiful Horsehide jackets so I know other cuts must be

around. Any idea where someone could purchase any?

They are very hard to find.....occasionally Seigel will have some......but everything but the butts are either fashion weight or shoe leather weight. Had somebody along time ago tell me (not sure it is 100% true or not) that if your shoes say "genuine cowhide" thats what they are and if they say "genuine leather" they are more than likely horse. We're pretty much the only country in the world that doesn't eat them...........to us they are pets. LOTS of people don't even want to know that something of theirs was made of horse, so I am really careful to disclose that info. But anyway from what I am told most of the horse hide goes to the shoe industry.

Back in the 40 and 50's the best leather jackets were horsehide and lots of them are still around. ...and then sometime along the way people became disgusted at the thought of wearing Old Dan or Trigger and they fell out of vogue.

But it is some of the best leather on the planet. I'd love to have one veg tanned just to see what it is like to work with a whole hide.

Sorry so long winded,

Tim

[whinewine]

I think Brettuns Village did have them occasionally. I know they sell horsehide that they term 'north of cordovan' which isn't true cordovan shell, but from the area above, or 'north of' the actual cordovan.

russ