Question On Head Knife.

[Tex Shooter]

I was talking about direction of the steel grain structure and not the sharpening angle. -- Tex

[FlHobbyist]

I was talking about direction of the steel grain structure and not the sharpening angle. -- Tex

Aha! I thought I was missing something. Does overheating the steel cause the direction of the steel grain structure to change? And, is there any way to tell what the direction is without a bunch of laboratory equipment?

[eglideride]

Picked up this CS Osborne for $25.00 at Montgomery MO. Old threshers show(steam engines and tractors) from an antique tool vendor...the rawhide mallet was had for $1.00. Found a smaller one for $25.00 at an antique store....some folks don't know what they are. So, my secret is out....rats, probably wont find anymore deals!

And yes, it needed sharpening. But both are in GREAT shape and love the patina of a used tool...

[evaengineer]

So, I'm at a slight impasse here. I've narrowed things down to two choices. 1.) Getting a more expensive knife (with a budget of around $100) or 2.) Getting a cheaper knife along with sharpening materials. I'm leaning a lot closer to the second option, but I'm in the dark with it; I don't know what kind of sharpening tools I need (strop, stone, etc.), and I don't know what price I would want them at. I hope it's not too much to ask, but would anyone here be able to help me with choosing what kinds of tools I'll want? I'm thinking of just getting a cheaper ~$48-$60 Osbourne for a starter.

Some things to note for anyone willing to help. First, I have never sharpened a knife before (sad, I know), but at least I am learning now. If you can give advice on what sharpening tools I'll want, I would greatly appreciate it. Second, if helping with choosing tools, I don't like to buy from China or Hong Kong, or most of Asia for that matter. I have purchased leatherworking supplies from Great Britain and Canada before without any problems.

Thanks much so far for the help everyone! I know this request for helping me with an online shopping cart might seem a bit excessive, but I learn best when I learn from an example.

[silverwingit]

You'll get much further with a less expensive knife and some sharpening equipment and skills than you would with the most expensive knife in the world with no way to sharpen or strop it.

$100 is still bare bones budget but it will get you started. If I were in your shoes, here's what I'd do.

1) CS Osborne Head knife. $49.00

http://www.zackwhite.com/Osborne-Head-Knife_p_812.html

2) DMT 8" Fine sharpening stone $48.61

http://www.amazon.com/DMT-D8F-Dia-Sharp-Continuous-Diamond/dp/B0001WP1LK/ref=pd_sim_sbs_misc_2

3) Green honing compound. $9.99

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Green-Honing-Compound-P26C11.aspx

4) Study this sticky post by list member Art on making a strop and make one for yourself. The bigger the better when it comes to sharpening a head knife. (And you don't have to use horsehide. I actually like mine made with veg-tan belly leather better. It takes the sharpening compound better in my hands.)

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=36221

5) Study this video by forum member Paul Zalesak on how to sharpen a head knife.

Now, mind you, this is a starting point for sharpening equipment (and even then you'll have to save some lunch money for the shipping). The fine stone will get you most of the way. Ideally you would follow that with sharpening on a DMT extra fine stone before you start stropping. But you can get most of the way there with the fine stone and then make up for not having the extra fine with some extra elbow grease in the stropping phase. Once you get the knife sharp you shouldn't have to re-sharpen it for some time, given proper care and regular stropping each time you pick up the blade.

You'll just have to trust me about he adequate quality of the Osborne blade. It's forged and well tempered. I like mine a lot. The diamond stone will only improve with age. Don't try to cheap out with a smaller stone or a natural Arkansas stone. You'll be frustrated and unhappy if you do.

Good luck and let us know what you decide and how you fair.

Michelle

You'll get much further with a less expensive knife and some sharpening equipment and skills than you would with the most expensive knife in the world with no way to sharpen or strop it.

$100 is still bare bones budget but it will get you started. If I were in your shoes, here's what I'd do.

1) CS Osborne Head knife. $49.00

http://www.zackwhite.com/Osborne-Head-Knife_p_812.html

2) DMT 8" Fine sharpening stone $48.61

http://www.amazon.com/DMT-D8F-Dia-Sharp-Continuous-Diamond/dp/B0001WP1LK/ref=pd_sim_sbs_misc_2

3) Green honing compound. $9.99

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Green-Honing-Compound-P26C11.aspx

4) Study this sticky post by list member Art on making a strop and make one for yourself. The bigger the better when it comes to sharpening a head knife. (And you don't have to use horsehide. I actually like mine made with veg-tan belly leather better. It takes the sharpening compound better in my hands.)

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=36221

5) Study this video by forum member Paul Zalesak on how to sharpen a head knife.

Now, mind you, this is a starting point for sharpening equipment (and even then you'll have to save some lunch money for the shipping). The fine stone will get you most of the way. Ideally you would follow that with sharpening on a DMT extra fine stone before you start stropping. But you can get most of the way there with the fine stone and then make up for not having the extra fine with some extra elbow grease in the stropping phase. Once you get the knife sharp you shouldn't have to re-sharpen it for some time, given proper care and regular stropping each time you pick up the blade.

You'll just have to trust me about he adequate quality of the Osborne blade. It's forged and well tempered. I like mine a lot. The diamond stone will only improve with age. Don't try to cheap out with a smaller stone or a natural Arkansas stone. You'll be frustrated and unhappy if you do.

Good luck and let us know what you decide and how you fair.

Michelle

[electrathon]

If you have never sharpened a knife, do not try to learn on a round knife! Learn on your kitchen knives, they are soft and easy to sharpen. When you can dry shave with them, move on.

Paul is a sharpening guru, watch his video carefully.

[evaengineer]

After S&H and whatnot, I ended up coming to about $120.

I followed Michelle at Silver Wing and purchased a C.S. Osborne head knife #71. I also got the green honing compound and sharpening stone. I'll be sure to practice with dull knives first! I'm really excited to see how things work out, especially considering I just got a huge load of leather from Tandy, and a bunch of buckles, liquids, and some sewing tools from Zack White.

I hope to make a fair amount back at nerd conventions and for my friends in SCA and LARPing groups!

This better be a good use of my excess student loan money.

Again, thank you all for the help so much, I am eager to get to work and show my progress!

[secondcrk]

The main problem most people have is they are trying to cut cheap hard leather! Always try to use good american leather. The guy who thought me to sharpen knives used a flat piece of leather (flesh side up) with valve grinding compound on it. This is still the best sharpening trick I ever used. Than strop with red rouge.

[dirtclod]

Keep you hand and fingers behind the blade. Sometimes a knife will slip when your cutting and hit a hard spot.

[Massive]

Just as there is a craft of leatherwork, there are a lot of people in the craft of knife and toolmaking. One of the ideas that has gained traction over the years, and makes some sense, is that one can improve the quality of cutting tools, simply by using "better" tool steels, and making them harder, both with the intention of making for longer periods between sharpening. What is less understood is that there are categories of tools that do not work in this mold.

An extreme example are scythes where the edge has to be regularly thinned out on an anvil. As a result the steel is ductile, soft, and needs sharpening every 5 minutes. Professionally though, one probably needs a rest every five minutes anyway... Other examples are razors, head knives, certain butchering knives, etc...

As such, simply making a custom knife with a stouter blade, that is harder to sharpen, less flexible, thicker, is not always the answer.

I'm currently using an Al Stohlman, which is an ok blade that needs regular touching up, but as such is "never" less than fully sharp. Part of why this works for me is because I make a lot of belts and holsters, and similar sized stuff. It might not work out if my projects were larger or more abrasive, or at least I would be resharpening more. One does have to match one's tools the the task, and the work day.

[Massive]

One thing I do use that is "new and improved" is diamond stropping. Frankly, with that, the hard blades I just partially dissed are easily sharpened, so there goes that objection. And diamond sharpening is cheap. If you aren't using it, you are missing out.

I just back a flat piece of wood with some veg tan, skin up. A1/2 a pea sized piece of the diamond paste is spread all over the surface as thin as you can get it. It will last a very long time. One might have to reload a bit at first, though I haven't.

For a lot of people this could be a lifetime supply, $7.50:

http://www.ebay.com/...=item20cf5552a9

just a random add from ebay. The stuff I have is from leevalley, but I think a lot of people are just using random stuff off the bay.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Massive

[Massive]

I'm a little confused. I thought that something like a hunting knife should be around 22 degrees, and that a round knife should be somewhere between 16 and 20 degrees. If I remember the swivel knives are sharpened to around 30 degrees. 45 sounds like a very large angle for a knife.

A hunting knife is closer to 22 a side for 45 total. Yeah, it is really fat. An extreme example is a wood plane blade 25 degree blade angle, and dragged through the wood at 45 degrees or higher, up to 60 degrees, that is pulling the blade edge sideways partially scraping.

(The blade is above the arrow, it gets dragged through the wood in a partial scraping action yet is normally only sharpened to 25 degrees)

yet that works great, but on a knife that cuts flesh, and is used in line with the edge, it is sharpened at 45 degrees. Go figure. Part of the rationale is that makers want a double grind, so the cutting geometry is balance, and yet they still want a lot of beef in the knife so they don't get returns.

This is why chisel ground knife edges (one bevel only at about 22 degrees), are gaining popularity, though they have issued of their own. A traditional example of a chisel ground knife is a Japanese kitchen knife, though their swords were ground with double bevels. Japanese leather knives are chisel ground.

If you look at these sharpening sticks, you will see the approx. 45 degree angles. One pair of holes gives 40 degrees while the other gives 50.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Massive