Group Buy For Stainless Steel Made In Usa Roller Buckles Various Sizes

[SeattleLeather]

Hello all!

So I am a bit new to the site, and heck pretty new to leather working in general. Did some as a kid, that’s about it! That said I’m not new to business. My dad has been self employed since I was a youngin’, and I’ve been running the family business for years now.

Short version of the story is different size roller buckles in Stainless Steel, Made in USA of US steel, delivered to your door for around either $.99 or $1.30 a piece (depending on finish) at the 1.5” size. Skip to “So here’s the deal:” if you don’t want to read my other blabbering! Sorry for the novel in advance, but I like to be very clear and detailed about things.

Here’s my conundrum. I want to start making leather goods as a half way serious thing right off. Serious as in very high quality, not necessarily high quantity. I want to use nothing but the best components. Furthermore I want 100% of my components to be made in USA. I was always taught if you’re going to do somethin’ do it right! Belts and bracelets to start, and we can see from there.

I want to start with black leather and all Stainless Steel hardware. Eventually I imagine I’d get into doing brown with Solid Brass. The SB is not too hard to come by made in the USA, even in small quantities. The SS seems to be almost entirely special order.

So the issue is, as was discussed in this thread (http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=40488&st=0) is that many of the manufacturers have high minimums… Higher than most of you guys who have been doing this for a long time and have established customer bases even want to touch. For anyone who sees it, I would also like to note the steel roller buckle the one member purchased from Custom Metal Crafters there is NOT made in USA. Maybe it was at the time, but when I talked to them a couple weeks ago it is now imported.

So here’s the deal:

I have a firm quote from Philip Machine on SS Roller Buckles, and in my opinion their flexibility is pretty awesome. Because they have to buy a certain minimum of the SS stock they need to make approximately 5000 units (based off all 1.5”)… BUT they are willing to mix and match buckle sizes and number of prongs for basically nothing extra. Smaller ones will be cheaper than my example below, and bigger ones more or less go up proportionally to the amount of extra SS they use. They manufacture 100% of their products in the USA, and in my opinion are a great company to support. The guy I talked to knew his stuff, and was able to give me an instant quote. If (lord forbid) there is enough interested to get above 5000 units, I imagine we can get the price down even more than as listed below.

1.5”x1.25” SS roller buckles

.215 diameter for the main wire (this is a regularly available SS stock, perhaps slight variation is possible though)

.135 or .152 diameter for the prongs

$.70-.79 a buckle (he didn’t check exact current pricing on the raw stock, but in this range)

This is with their “regular” finish, which he said is slightly duller than regular nickel plating.

He said they can do an ultra high shine finish (some sort of buffing type thing or other process I forget the technical name he used. I think it was chemical based. NOT plating, still solid SS) that will get the finish up to basically looking like chrome. This is something they sub out to a company down the road a piece, and it costs $.27 cents a unit their cost, they usually mark up to around $.31.

Going with the high figures this brings the total price to $1.10 a unit. Shipping is roughly $.08-.10 a unit. Reshipping cost to you guys let’s assume the same.

GRAND TOTAL: $1.30 delivered to YOUR front door using the high numbers.

That is what it will cost delivered for the ultra high shine, which is what I want to go for. They can NOT do the high shine on all units, so doing the regular finish brings down the cost around $.31 a unit, so $.99 delivered. Keep in mind that’s for 1.5”, so bigger/smaller ones will vary the price.

So here’s what I’m thinking. I have the cash to put up for the order, I just don’t want to spend $6,000 bucks and sit on it. It could be a LONG time before I could get rid of that many buckles.

If I could find enough people to offload say 90 percent of these, I will do them straight up at my cost + shipping to you guys. I would think we could get shipping down to $.10ish a unit to reship to other people.

If I can line up enough to get rid of just a good chunk, I could also possibly still place the order and sell them to people at some reasonable “profit” for myself to help offset me sitting on a ton more buckles than I need.

I’m thinking I would like 1.5”, 1.75”, and 2” buckles all in 1 and 2 prong variations. 1” perhaps in single prong. What does anybody think?

You literally CAN NOT find SS made in USA roller buckles to purchase in reasonable quantities anywhere. I looked. Everywhere. If someone knows of one, please tell me! But I don’t think you can find them period. So basically whoever gets in on this will be the only ones who can say they use them in their products, and the only ones who can retail them as stand alone buckles through their businesses. We’d have the market cornered J

I am also open to becoming the “minority partner” in this endeavor if someone else maybe wants most of them for themselves and just wants to use my lead. I will gladly pay someone a tidy profit to avoid having to shell out all the cash up front. NOTE I also have a pending quote from another company, so we’ll see where they land. They are a bigger outfit, so they might be able to come in cheaper… But it sounds like quantities would be higher by a good bit.

I think public discussion is preferable, but send me a PM if you’d like! I’m just throwing this out there, and not necessarily in a huge rush to pull the trigger. If there is enough interest I will though! I’ve secured low volume sources for nickel plated steel made in USA, and perhaps I’ll just start with that and offer the “All Solid Stainless” line later as a “product improvement” if I have to. If you want info on those let me know, they can go down to under .50 cents per! This is my last “hurdle” for basic all SS items. But I wanted to gauge the interest!

[SeattleLeather]

Oh, and for anyone wondering I'm talking about guys like these:

I didn't ask about getting the little stops, so I don't know if that quote includes them or not, but I'm fine without myself.

[Cyberthrasher]

That second one is actually my preferred style. But, that said, I really don't use a lot of buckles, so I wouldn't be interested in a huge number to start with. I would be willing to participate in a group buy for the number that I feel I would need though. Perhaps later I'll end up needing more, so having the option there would still be a good thing.

[Rayban]

I'd be very interested in USA made heel bar buckles, nickle and brass. But surprisingly enough I get very few requests for roller buckles.

And I would also need to buy in small quantities, about a month's worth.

[SeattleLeather]

Thanks for the first replies so far! So Cyberthrasher, what kind of numbers are you thinking? Fact is I'd really like to pull this off, and there's more than one way to skin a cat. A few guys with established businesses buying 500 or 1000 would be awesome, but a dozen here, and dozen there can add up too! Between us I think we can get this done!

Going forward can everyone try to put a rough estimate of what size and quantity they would want? That way I can tally things up and see if we're close to me being able to swing this thing!!!

Also, Rayban, even though I responded to your PM I'm gonna post info for others. I think doing some other styles would be great, and from talking to some of the other manufacturers perfectly doable. When you're not trying to do "custom" stuff like this SS the minimums are FAR more reasonable. I've got quotes as low as 500. Perhaps gauging interest for different types of items with another thread is a good way to go?

http://albest.com/product.asp?Func=DispProd&SelCat=Buckles&SelSubCat=End+Bar+Buckles

These guys make some sweet end bar buckles. Thing I like most: They do solid Nickel Silver! I just don't like plate. It will ALWAYS fail eventually, no matter what "quality" it is. Their minimum on regular steel roller buckles was 500 units, so maybe their brass/nickel silver is the same? A far more attainable minimum for LW.Net users I would think! Even if I can't get the SS roller buckle deal done because there's not enough interest, I'd love to spur people on to buying from some of these companies!

[Cyberthrasher]

well, for my end I'm sure I'd be in the "dozen here and dozen there" group. Memory's failing me on the size I use for my guitar strap buckles - so I'll have to check that. But, I do like 1 1/2", 1 3/4", and probably some smaller ones in the 3/4" to 1" region (again, have to check the size on those). I'd also be interested in a good supplier of solid brass, so a mix and match deal there would be great. If I get time tonight I'll check on all of those sizes.

[wolfe9]

I would be in for some , I would need to mix sizes a bit .

I also think the second one looks much better (look of quality )

Not sure of how many just yet maybe 100 if I can swing it .

[ByAmericansllc]

I checked with custom metal crafters today and the buckle I posted in the original thread is still made in USA their min order is $100 and they sell in multiples of 200

[electrathon]

I checked with custom metal crafters today and the buckle I posted in the original thread is still made in USA their min order is $100 and they sell in multiples of 200

Are these stainless or plated?

[electrathon]

I would be in for 100 if that helps the numbers out. I too like the second one, it looks cast and not bent wire. If they are cast, the roller part is less desired to me than a normal buckle. I am really only interested in stainless, prefer medium shine.

Be aware, if you put your neck out a number of people may not come through in the end. I have seen this happen before on forums. Many will, but people do came and go. Also you should have a 10% mark up to cover your costs, you will eat a few dollars along the way, so you should not be loosing money.

Aaron

[SeattleLeather]

Wolfe9, will keep it in the tally as a rough number! I think between the posts here and some PMs might be at about 10% Come on high rollers, where you guys all at??? Haha!

ByAmericansllc:

Huh, that's interesting about Custom Metal Crafters. Which guy did you talk to? I believe I talked to Tim Balog, and he was the one who said those are being imported now. Ben I think is the other guy who responded to my initial email and also said those are imported now, but I talked to Tim on the phone.

Aside from them telling me, one of the reasons I assumed that to be correct is that you see that 999 part number carried over to some companies that resell those same buckles, and one or two of them said they were made overseas too. I would assume there's not multiple companies using the same part number for sucha similar item.

If they're still made in the states that's nothing but a good thing! They ought to make sure all their sales reps know this fact though if that's the case. I reckon that would make them the lowest minimum order for US roller buckles that I've found then if that's the case! Perhaps I'll have to re-check with Tim if I can't get this SS thing going.

Electrathon:

I agree across the board. Perhaps I chose a bad "representative" picture, as you are probably correct with that 2nd one being cast. I know some shaping/contouring ("coining" seems to be industry terminology) can be done to wire as I've seen this talked about on other manufacturers sites, but I did not discuss this with them. I would assume the quote above is for something more like the 1st one. I do agree that some of the subtle differences in number 2 would be nice, but if doable I'm sure they would add to cost. If we can get up to the minimum I was already thinking of checking to see even before posting this thread! As for some minor markup, yes perhaps.

And to answer your question on the Custom Metal buckles, they are steel with nickel plate. If I remember my conversation correctly they can do solid brass wire as well. And finally, if you prefer the stainless mainly for the same reason I do (no plate to wear off) http://albest.com/product.asp?Func=DispProd&SelCat=Buckles&SelSubCat=End+Bar+Buckles could be of interest. If I were going for dressy or casual belts as my first stuff vs Rock gear I would definitely be checking into their solid Nickel Silver products! The rollers go too perfectly though with all the rock 'n' roll styled stuff!

And as another note, is it within this forums ettiquette to make a thread in a more "main" forum linking to this one to bring attention to it? Some message boards I've posted on over the years had this happen all the time, and it was fine. I'm sure this isn't one of the most heavily trafficed sections, so bringing more attention to it from more popular sections would be cool! If this is ok, which would you guys that have been around here longer suggest?

Also, if anyone feels like messaging friends they feel may be interested, please do! I would really like to see this happen, and the more people that know, the more will be interested, and the more likely it is to actually happen!

[ByAmericansllc]

I call their main number and select sales, always seem to get the same girl, she seems knowledgeable and has gone through most of the catalog with me in the past, confirming country of origin, my geneal feel from talking to her is that most cmc branded zinc cast and bent wire are USA and all solid brass and Waterbury style are imports, that has not been confirmed, just every item I enquirer about followed those norms.

Also when I called their distributor numbers they were clueless. Their manufacturing facility is in ct, and when you can the main number you are at least talking to someone who has the ability to literally walk down to the production line and ask, their warehouses in Seattle and Cali are just distribution points.

Also the 3 digit numerical designation appears to be used on all the bent wire hardware they sell, z des on their zinc

Edited September 20, 2013 by ByAmericansllc

[ByAmericansllc]

Also regarding the solid brass, from my research you would have a hard time finding USA cast brass fron a large manufacturer now due to EPA regs. Small/hobby/custom producers can get by but large facilities face to many regulations to cast brass here. Which is why most manufactorers that are still us based use plated zinc.

[Sovran81]

If this were for small locking tongue roller buckles I would be in for some. Locking tongue are hard to find in anything under 1" at reasonable prices. 5/8 and 3/4 would be ideal.

[Leather by LOU]

I would be in for 100 pieces as a test... but would be interested in many more if I liked them. Is there a way to get samples?

Edited September 25, 2013 by Leather by LOU

[SeattleLeather]

ByAmericansllc

Sorry, I was sick for about a week, and then had catch up to play at my "real" job! Well, that would all make sense with what I've found from other companies. Zinc and steel wire seem to be commonly done here. Also correct on the brass casting. It can crackle/pop causing injuries, so the big companies don't want to touch it. As far as SOLID brass, not cast, you can find things made from wire/stamped from various companies still.

Sovran81

There are many parts that would be awesome to have done, for me this is just kind of the first thing I personally would like to get as you can't find SS made in the USA.

So is there anyone else out there interested? I think by this count we MAY be about 10 percent there... Also is it appropriate to post in other more main forums on here to draw attention to this in case others who don't look at this section frequently are interested?

[nairecastle]

I am new to the forum as well as new to leather crafting. I am in Canada but would also be interested.

[Resparza]

What happened to this thread?