3 Possible Adlers And 1 Singer

[tomstas]

hello,

I'm attending an car upholstery class and i'm looking for a good sewing machine .

I've found some interesting adlers but I'm not sure they'l be any good for my future car projects.'e

The first one I looked at was a brand new duerkopp Adler 267-373. It's from a well respected dealer in holland. What I don't like about is that it is brand new and covert in white plastic. I hear a lot about new DA not beeing as good as the old one's.

So would it be better to buy an old version of this one?

Second one I found is an old duerkopp(no adler) 291. Is this one better then the 267? What's the difference ?

Is there any logic in the serial numbers? What does 267,373,etc all stand for?

The last one I found is a Duerkopp Adler 767 Fa 373. This looks like a complete different league. But hey I'm only a rookie so I could be wrong.

All the machines are in the same price range

finally, my grandfather has an old singer he used to fix shoes about 30 yearsq ago. He will show it to me on friday ,maybe it can be used after some TLc. BUt i think it's gonna be hard to find parts for this one if needed.

If someone knows a lot about these 3 please letme know

I'll post som some pictures of the 3 DA machine

Edited September 26, 2013 by tomstas

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

I can help a bit here;

The original 267s were all made in Germany, and, to the best of my knowledge, all were grey or hammer grey paint. These have been discontinued for some time now.

The white ones, again, to the best of my knowledge, came from China at first. These were 267-373 models. This factory that made this model is,again, no longer. We called to restock, and were told that the factory was flattened in China. They didn't have any 267 models for a good number of years after this.

Now, currently , today, Durkopp Adler has another made in China 267-373. They use the same model number, but this machine does differ from previous models in that the reverse lever is push down instead of lift up for reverse.

See image of this new model DA 267-373 below;

As for the full function underbed trimmer model, make sure you have the required power, often it can be 3 phase 220V, and many folks don't have this available.

[tomstas]

hi Gregg

thanks for sharing your info here..

I know that the 291 uses 3 phase 220v , don't know about the 767. The seller mentions that this can be converted to 220V; Would this be difficult and would this change the waythe machine handles?

Once again , i'm a complete noob on this matter

Here in belgium you can get 3 phase 220v is some situations. I think you need to proof that you need it for your profession , this is what a friend of mine told me; He's into electric and machines professionaly.

[GerryR]

You can get single phase-to-three phase converters, reasonably priced, and they are programmable with many options. I have one running a 1 hp, 3 phase, motor on my Singer 153 from a 220VAC single phase outlet. You can get them for virtually any hp motor. Here is a link to the one I am using: http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS1_(120_-z-_230_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)/GS1_Drive_Units_(120_-z-_230_VAC)/GS1-21P0. It's another option and I would be happy to answer any questions you might have about setting one up.

Regards,

Gerry

[tomstas]

Gerry, thanks for your info , i'll check it out later today.

When i come home i'll be going to my grandfather to look at his old Singer. Maybe i'll just start with that one if it's functional. Otherwise

I'll have to decide witch Adler i'm going to buy. I just feel that maybe i'm going to fast and it would be better to wait a few months longer .Maybe if i have more knowledge the choices will be easier to make.

It's good to know that converting a machine is do-able and affordable. Great info on this forum and nice people. That means a lot to me

[Constabulary]

I guess the Grandfathers Singer is a class 29 patcher as you mentioned he did shoe repair with it?

I don´t know what exactly you are planing to do with your sewing machine but for auto upholstery a walking foot machine would be the 1st choice.

I´m not doing upholstery in the classic sense but I´m sewing a lot canvas and some leather. I worked with a Pfaff 138, 238 flat bed and 28 cylinder bed and Adler 104 flat bed (all not walking foot) before I found my old Singer 111. Its about 50 years old and still works smooooooth. So when you are new to this "Hobby" you are probably not willing to spend too much money. I always can happen that find out that it is not your business. You know what I mean? I don´t know how much the above mentioned Adlers are but either type is quite costly I´d assume.

My Paff 28, 138 and 238 worked while but the more I worked the more ideas I had and then figured they are no longer suitable for what I`m doing.

Then I found the 104 and figured it somehow it tooooo big (but I still have it). The last one was my 111D156 and I love it! It suits very well for me.

BTW for non of the above I paid more than 150€ BUT I had to do a lot of cleaning, refurbishing, replacing some parts, adjustments and motor replacements + the gas I consumed for picking them up. But I liked it very much. Sometimes it is good to go through a kind of "Machine-finding-process". Not easy to explain. However, the machines should suit the work you are planing to do with them and the money you spend should be a good relation to your output no matter if it is a hobby or business. Thats just my opinion.

Converting a clutch motor from 380V / 400V to 220V is not a big task.

I don´t know how the electrical plugs in Belgium looks like but I assume they are almost the same as in Germany.

I converted 3 Pfaff + Kobold clutch motors from a 380V /400V to 220V with a starting capacitor and Steinmetz circuit.

But again - I don´t know how the electrical system in Belgium is and you should not do this if you are unsure of what you are doing.

[tomstas]

Constabulary

all things you mentioned above make a lot of sense. It's my goal to start a business in car upholstery (especially oldtimers and custom work , this would also include dashboard,sidepanels,steering wheels...

But i still have a long way to go but i know for sure this is what I really want. I curently self employed, i have a small newspaper store which is very time consuming that's why i want to install a smaller machine here in the shop and start some experimenting with smaller stuff i can sell her. i was thinking about shoe reapair, making covers foor books small walets , ...,that sort of stuff just so I can practise my sewing;

When I'm done with the car upholstery lessons and I feel i'm good enough to make a living out of that i want to quit my current job and go fulltime into car upholstery.

I realise that car upholstery and making wallets isn't quite the same.

About the electricity in Belgium, If i show this post to my uncle I'm sure he knows what you are talking about. He has been doing this for 30 years. Me knows nothing about this matter ;-)

The machines I showed here arer quite expensive, around 1500 €; That's a lot for a beginner but I really wan't to buy something good instead of 5 or 6 bad one's.

[Constabulary]

well, maybe you should look over the fence (thank god there is no fence ;-) ) on Ebay Germany. There are always some quite interesting machines listed.

My Singer 111 was just 100€ incl. an old clutch motor and a wooden stand. I had to drive 125Km one way and spent some time in adjusting and replacing the timing belt (ordered it from the USA) and I repainted it and put a new decal on it (just for optical reasons) so it overall cost me about 180€. I also loved restoring it as I learned a lot about the machine. I´m going to replace the motor soon with a Servomotor but thats a different story, the clutch motor is still working well. The Singer of course was a lucky circumstance but it is possible to get a good machine for below 500€ but you probably have to travel a bit.

For example, there are always some nice Pfaffs on Ebay Germany.

www.ebay.de/itm/151128683177

www.ebay.de/itm/111173932392

I think the two above will not go over 350€

I know you are from Brussels and its quite a way but it could be worth the traveling! Of course, there is always a risk but theses old machines are really work horses and they will last for decades. As I said before my Singer 111 is about 50 years or older and runs smooth. Its about the same class as the Pfaff 145 or Adler 167. And parts for older Pfaffs and Adlers are not a big problem.

[Constabulary]

Because of the capacitor + Steinmetz circuit, this website is quite helpful but you have to translate it.

http://forum.electro...880f29_bs0.html

Edited September 27, 2013 by Constabulary

[tomstas]

I don't know why but i've ignored the other brands (pfaff etc. ) here. it think it's because we use the adlers in class that I kinda like them and maybe consider them to be the best of the best.

I think you're right when you say "look over the fence" . In Belgium the say : "look further then the tip of your nose BTW"

I know some pfaffs here on belgium websites that are under 500 €. I just thought the possible couldn't be capable of the same things as the more expensive adlers.

I guess it's true that i might need to buy more then one in my life and that it's best to start with a cheaper machine.