Using Up The Pieces

[Tracym]

Ok, I think I know what it is. Once the pattern is correct in 2 passes, you just then need to go on adding 2 more parallel passes, each "above" the last one. My problem is keeping the dang thing loose enough to allow that much room - I bet this is one where pins on the mandrel might be helpful. I believe it is a 9 part 8 bight turkshead. What I have now looks the same, but without the extra passes. What I did was the following:

Using Gail Hought’s basic turkshead – starts off as 4 bight, then an expansion pass (creating “railroad tracks” then splitting them on the parallel, creates a “standard” 7 part 6 bight turkshead.

Then, I just did one more expansion pass exactly the same way – railroad tracks next to the standing string, splitting on parallel – this yielded a 9 part 8 bight turkshead.

Then, I just did a standard herringbone/pineapple interweave – follow the standing end on the right of the standing end, going under the X at top and bottom of the knot. Split any parallels you come across crosswise. When you are splitting the parallels, do the same thing to the original strings as the string you are following, do the opposite to the new string.

Does this sound right folks? And any tricks for keeping this knot loose enough to allow for 4 passes?

Edited December 19, 2013 by Tracym

[TXAG]

You could do what I did...start it on a larger mandrel, then transfer it to a smaller diameter one...that should give you more room to work while keeping everything straight...

4 bight? How many leads/parts? You're starting to sound like gail.

So can I just start with a 7L x 6B knot then? I'm not sure what you mean by an "expansion pass". I'll try to find a 9L x 9B (I think that's what you mean) in Tom Hall's book and start with that.

I'm so confused...none of this makes any sense to me at all. Again, can you please let me know what a "standard" herringbone/pineapple weave is? There seem to be about a million different ones or so...

When you are splitting the parallels, do the same thing to the original strings as the string you are following, do the opposite to the new string.

I do not understand this. I guess I am just too stupid to be able to tie this stuff. Pretty strongly considering giving up on this stuff right about now. Also, "stuff" was not the first word to come to mind, but this is a family forum and I am trying to keep it family friendly.

Edited December 19, 2013 by TXAG

[bucksnort]

I may be wrong here, but it appears to me your way overthinking this. All pineapple knots are tied on a turkshead base. For even # bights you begin with a 2 bight & however many passes you decide to make it the right length. Every time you add a full pass to the base knot, it adds 2 bights,so 2,4,6 & so on. More bights add more to the diameter of the knot more parts add to the length. The pineapple adds passes without adding bights to fill in without adding bights, For an odd # of bights, you start with a 3 bight turkshead & every pass adds 2 bights, 3,5,7 ect. he books & stuff on the net like to give a lot of different names to what is pretty much the same thing. A pineapple is a pineapple, just depends on the # of parts & bights. Hope this helps. Buck

[Tracym]

Well it would help if I could type - I'm so sorry, I corrected my post above - it is 9 part 8 bight turkshead.

[TXAG]

Thanks, tracym...I did find a tutorial for a 9L x 8B, so am going to try that later after I step away from it for a while.

Bucksnort -- if I were looking at this from your perspective (experience), what you said would probably make a lot more sense. I guess I just don't know enough yet to "get it".

Like tracym, I am starting to figure out the patterns as far as when to split parallels, how to go under x's (and how many)...but for the life of me, I cannot figure out this knot.

[Tracym]

What I've seen as the basic interweave for the pineapple knot is - if you are holding the knot so the mandrel is sideways - the standing string is sticking out to your left. Your new string enters the knot just below the standing string, and follows the standing string up (to the right) o1 u1 however many times until you reach the top and go under the X, staying inside the original knot. Then the same down. Just continue that, but whenever you find two that are a pair (parallel) the original and new string, you split them. This is what I think Bucksnort is talking about - the interweave is basically the same no matter the size of the knot. The interweave will have 2 less parts than the original knot.

I think I would have had to start on a really large mandrel, or use narrower lace, as 4 passes needs a LOT of room.

[Tracym]

In the Gail Haught's turkshead (I think you have that one), where she ends up showing the 7 x 6 Turkshead, it is a complete 6 bight knot at figure 15. Figures 16 onward are an expansion pass. You can see the parallels, and how on an expansion pass, they are split in the same direction as themselves. So the 5 x 4 becomes a 7 x 6. If you simply repeat steps 15 onwards a second time then, it becomes 9 x 7. If you wanted it bigger, you'd just keep going.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Tracym

[TXAG]

In the Gail Haught's turkshead (I think you have that one), where she ends up showing the 7 x 6 Turkshead, it is a complete 6 bight knot at figure 15. Figures 16 onward are an expansion pass. You can see the parallels, and how on an expansion pass, they are split in the same direction as themselves. So the 5 x 4 becomes a 7 x 6. If you simply repeat steps 15 onwards a second time then, it becomes 9 x 7. If you wanted it bigger, you'd just keep going.

Ok, I will look at this when I get home this afternoon...thanks...

[Tracym]

Gah, I can't get the numbers right to save my life today - again I am SO sorry. It's a complete FOUR bight knot at figure 15. Six bight when complete. You're welcome. The way those expansion passes work, it seems, you can just keep repeating that to make as big of a "square" turkshead as you want (square meaning the number of bights and parts are only 1 apart).

Oh, and the two kinds of pineapple knots that I noticed (there could be more) is the one used in the knot you like, and what I'm talking about - the 2nd (and subsequent) passes stay inside the main knot, so are smaller than the main knot - 2 fewer parts - and go under the "X" at both ends of the knot. A different type continues out the top side of the knot, and is the exact same size as the original knot - in that case, you'd go under the "X" at the bottom, but not at the top (you'd go outside the main knot instead).

[TXAG]

My favorite one is like the heel knot...it cinches down on both ends to help keep everything contained...