Wetting Strings And Conditioning Finished Items

[BIS Leads]

I have been using Bick 4 to wet my kangaroo lace and use it again before and after each rolling of my finished leads.

It is starting to cost a lot for the amount I go through especially for the freight as it's heavy.

I was trying to find a homemade concoction that would replace it.

I found online, a vinegar and olive oil; a beeswax and neetsfoot oil; and a beeswax, neatsfoot oil and parrafin wax recipies.

My question is to you experienced and wise leather braiders, what would you use to prewet the lace?

What do you use to condition the final product?

What are you thoughts on any/all of the above concoctions?

Would you share your recipie? Would a homemade concoction last on the shelf, or would it need refrigeration?

Thanks so much in advance!

[TXAG]

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=52217

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=50712

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=44342

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=21815

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=5238

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=16039

Edited January 17, 2014 by TXAG

[BIS Leads]

Thanks for the links. I'd only seen a couple of those while doing my searching.

Interesting info on David Morgans site. The braiding soap is ivory/water/lard. But he recommends the Pecard Dressing which is primarily petroleum(vaseline) & beeswax.

Way different recipies. And he states tallow, ie lard, builds up on leather and "attacks leather fibers".

So, I have another question. If you use the Ivory/lard/water type mixture, do you wash it out?

So if it has to be washed, then dried, I'd assume you'd condition with something else before using.

[TXAG]

You'll probably get as many different answers to those questions as there are people.

I use white saddle soap, personally...don't really feel like messing with lard or using ivory soap, cooking it, etc.

[bluerider]

The last step I go through when making kangaroo lace is to hold it under my thumb as I pull it through a can of fiebing's white saddle soap. I run it through flesh side down and then flesh up. I then pull the lace through a soft rag to get any excess saddle soap off and then let the lace dry before braiding.

There is enough soap still left after braiding to use a burnisher, though occasionally I will apply a very light amount of fiebongs after i'm completely done burnishing.

[BIS Leads]

Thanks. I just ordered some white saddle soap and am going to compare with the Bick 4.

[nrk]

Thanks. I just ordered some white saddle soap and am going to compare with the Bick 4.

have you tried 'Conditioner,Rawhide Cream,Vaqu' or 'Conditioner,Aussie' from Springfield leather?

[Peter T]

Hi BIS Leads, I have gone the other way to you where I have tried quite a few home made brews and have ended up at Bick 4. My main reason for this is due to darkening the leather. Most of my home made brews darken the leather a bit much for my liking when I'm doing 2 tone work where I really want to keep the colours close to the original colour as possible. Bick 4 is pretty good for this. It says on the container that it will not darken leather. It does a little bit, but the least of anything else I tried.

I know what you mean about the cost though. It does add up. For this reason I'll only use it on certain items where the colouring really matters. I have a home made brew that is my favourite plaiting soap that I use on most things, particularly single colour whips, where it doesn't matter if the leather darkens. It contains 5 cups mutton fat, 2 cakes Dove soap, 3 cups water, 1/4 cake parrafin wax and a squirt of dish washing detergent. I made a batch of this a couple of year's ago and am still using it. It's in a 2 litre bucket and cost me less than $10. It cost me $15 for the smallest bottle of Bick 4 so it's certainly cost effective to make your own.

I don't put anything else on at the end of a project after using either of these. Both of them will help the leather, not harm it. If there's a bit of soap residue I just brush it off with a small scrubbing brush (one with bristles not too soft or too hard).

I have only seen yellow saddle soap. I would be interested to know if the white saddle soap darkens the leather much.

Pete

[BIS Leads]

Just got the tin of white saddle soap. For $30 I know this is going to take me a while to use up! Way bigger tin than I thought it'd be.

And it was only what I pay for 2 bottles (16 oz) of the Bick4. I'm thinking I could add some water to some and make it more the consistancy of the Bicks, but Im going to try it straight first. I'm testing it on scrap leather first, but after a few minutes, I'm not seeing any color difference on pink kangaroo leather from the soap compared to the one with bick4 applied.

[TXAG]

Yep. At the risk of being incredibly grammatically incorrect, white saddle soap is where it's at...

[Peter T]

Hmm sounds like it might be worth a go. I'll have to chase some up sometime. Thanks for the feedback.

Pete

[bluerider]

You can add water to white saddle soap. The stuff in the tin wool dry out over time, both by having the lid off when using it and with the lid closed. I add a bit of water based on how much the cake has shrink away from the edge of the can. I then place the tin on my stoves griddle and stir out a it melts. Out will look like you are burning out at first and the completely melted soap will have a yellowish color. Once cooled out will be white and good a new. I've never tried adding more water to make out softer but my experience suggests that out is most likely possible.

[TXAG]

You can add water to white saddle soap. The stuff in the tin will dry out over time, both by having the lid off when using it and with the lid closed. I add a bit of water based on how much the cake has shrunk away from the edge of the can. I then place the tin on my stoves griddle and stir it until it melts. It will look like you are burning it at first and the completely melted soap will have a yellowish color. Once cooled, it will be white and good as new. I've never tried adding more water to make it softer but my experience suggests that it is most likely possible.

FTFY

[BIS Leads]

You can add water to white saddle soap. The stuff in the tin wool dry out over time, both by having the lid off when using it and with the lid closed. I add a bit of water based on how much the cake has shrink away from the edge of the can. I then place the tin on my stoves griddle and stir out a it melts. Out will look like you are burning out at first and the completely melted soap will have a yellowish color. Once cooled out will be white and good a new. I've never tried adding more water to make out softer but my experience suggests that out is most likely possible.

thanks so much for this feedback. So, I took about a 1/2 cup of the white saddle soap and an equal part water. Melted it down, and it did turn yellow - probably would have tossed it if not for your heads up! Once it cooled, it was solid as a rock again. So I added more water, and then more - 2 more cups total. It now is not solid - but a thick slimy concoction. Not as much like lotion as Bick4, but usuable. Was wondering if adding a bit of ivory soap would cut the adhesion factor and make what I want.

I've tried the soap straight on the roo laces, but it left them feeling a bit tacky for my ease in braiding. Using a damp rag and getting some soap worked into it works great - but I have to go into another room to get water, and I am just too lazy! Ha! Ha!

[bluerider]

I'm glad you found Something that works. I run my roo lace through the saddle soap twice, once on each side and once it dries it's not tacky. I normally use it for knots tied on latigo leads but I have braided with it dry and it braids just fine. The soap allows the dry lace to be pulled tight with out excessive stretching. But it's not like braiding rawhide where you can braid a bit and then tighten up what you've braided. With dry roo you have to braid with even tension. I Don't know if out makes a difference but the lace i'm using is cut from a drum stuffed hides.

[BIS Leads]

I am learning jsut how much a difference there is in roo leather. I am in the process of using up my existing supply and switching over to a drum stuffed leather. It is so soft, I do not even know why I soap it. But I learned to always soap first, so that's what I am doing. For the other leather, it was imperative to get it nice and wet in order to get it to braid tight. But you are right, if I braid when it is too wet, it does tend to over stretch. Hadn't quite connected that dot before!

[brycew74]

I use a can of saddle soap a bar of ivory soap half a bar of paraffin wax and 2 or so cups of water works pretty well and kind of seals it and makes it shiny

[Sovran81]

I am learning jsut how much a difference there is in roo leather. I am in the process of using up my existing supply and switching over to a drum stuffed leather. It is so soft, I do not even know why I soap it. But I learned to always soap first, so that's what I am doing. For the other leather, it was imperative to get it nice and wet in order to get it to braid tight. But you are right, if I braid when it is too wet, it does tend to over stretch. Hadn't quite connected that dot before!

This statement confuses me. Well the part of it being over stretched. If it isnt stretched to the max before you braid, then it stretches while you braid which reduces width and gives uneven strands. It also tends to thicken where it narrows. Stretch hide, cut strand, stretch, resize, split, braid.

I am also confused on you idea of drum stuffed. Do you mean color or lube stuffed? So many tanneries mean color when it used to mean color and lube.

I have used both. Packer grade 1 leather is great stuff, and you pay for it. Other color stuffed leather is great also if you dont mind spending the time to lube it.

[Tracym]

How much difference in cost is there between Packer grade 1 - which I think is the whipmaking grade drum stuffed, and their regular craft lace? I haven't figured out if the craft lace is drum stuffed or not, but I'm guessing not. I don't know anyone that offers the colors in drum stuffed (if the above is correct) - do you? I also am not sure what you mean by color or lube stuffed?

[BIS Leads]

This is what my supplier told me in an email regarding his lace vs the lace I have been buying:

"They (the factories) both tan the hides differently...they stretch and dry

tan their hides where the one my leather comes from tan and soak and use

a hydraulic plate to compress the fibre bundles inside the hide which

makes it more even and stronger. There are a myriad of differences

between the leathers without going into all of the details."

One big difference I noticed between the two laces, was the smell. My new lace has that wonderful leather smell!

And he has it in lots of colors. Some colors are a bit thicker than others, but all seem to be supple and consistant in quality, and so far I have been really pleased.

[Sovran81]

How much difference in cost is there between Packer grade 1 - which I think is the whipmaking grade drum stuffed, and their regular craft lace? I haven't figured out if the craft lace is drum stuffed or not, but I'm guessing not. I don't know anyone that offers the colors in drum stuffed (if the above is correct) - do you? I also am not sure what you mean by color or lube stuffed?

Drum stuffing is basically "in a vat" whether it is dye or lube. Packer was $116 per meter last I checked. They drum stuff both dye and lube. I say lube because I dont recall if it was fat or lard. It feels smoother than other (dry)roo and the strands slide into place with little additional braiding soap if any.

[Tracym]

This is what my supplier told me in an email regarding his lace vs the lace I have been buying:

"They (the factories) both tan the hides differently...they stretch and dry

tan their hides where the one my leather comes from tan and soak and use

a hydraulic plate to compress the fibre bundles inside the hide which

makes it more even and stronger. There are a myriad of differences

between the leathers without going into all of the details."

One big difference I noticed between the two laces, was the smell. My new lace has that wonderful leather smell!

And he has it in lots of colors. Some colors are a bit thicker than others, but all seem to be supple and consistant in quality, and so far I have been really pleased.

Curious what factories etc. we are talking about?

[BIS Leads]

TracyM, I do not know for sure where my lace cutter buys his skins, but I'm guessing it might be Packer. My USA supplier is Springfield. I am not trying to bash them, they have been very helpful as I have gotten started in this adventure, and most of what I've bought from them has been good. However, some spools are definately not up to my standards - large variations in thicknesses, with areas that are so hard and stiff they won't braid at all. So I tried some from someone who sells via Etsy, called Leatheroo, and his lace has been really nice so far altho it costs 2x as much.

I emailed Packer regarding their precut lace, and this was their reply:

Thankyou for your enquiry.

Lacing is cut from K-Craft.

Their site says K-Craft is veg-tanned, 1st class, 0.8 - 1mm thick.

Springfield's comes from Birdsall, and their site says this about the kangaroo: These skins are vegetable tanned, drum dyed through. Approx 0.7/1.0mm in thickness.

So now I am more confused, as they both seem to be saying the same thing!

Any of you experts really know and can explain the differences?

[Tracym]

Thanks. Yes, I think Springfield is a great company, but I don't really like working with the Birdsall lace either. Barb at Y-Knot lace has quite nice lace - I think at least some of it is probably from Packer, but I'm not positive. I wonder if a few colors (bright pink for ex. may be from Birdsall). I'm wondering if it's all from Amazing Lace, who I've been told may get lace from multiple tanneries. Packer lace is much nicer than Birdsall imo, And I thought I read on Packers site that they also sell drum stuffed lace, in a few basic colors. Very interesting. I don't know where Leatheroo gets lace - are you saying he hand cuts it?

[curlyjo]

I get all my hides from Hardtke in El Paso, Tx. and they've been the best price for drum stuffed Packer hides. Had 1 problem, sent a note to Hardtke and got a call dirrectly from Graham Packer from Australia. Talked with him for quite a while and sent the hide back to Aus. and he sent me a new hide without waiting for the first to arrive there. When he got the hide and checked it he said it was something to do with the pickling process on that particular hide. Outstanding service from the other side of the world. I've never personally had to grease or lube any strings, just cut them at 5-6/32, stretch with my hands, split down to 2/32 for button string or leave alone for Bosal braiding, size, bevel and go to work. Brad