Skirts

[Echo4V]

I have seen a lot of old saddles and they all seem to have smaller skirts than is normal for modern saddles. Especially the older gaited saddles like Buena Vistas they really don't even have skirts just covered bars.

I would be curious to know what you folks think about skirts and how small is too small?

If someone built skirts to the shape of the bars but maybe 2 inches bigger all the way around would that be detrimental?

What do the skirts do but keep sweat off the rider and look good?

When it comes to padding skirts what is the benefit of shearling over the felted wool (like Don 101 used on his half seat saddle)?

[Echo4V]

I can't believe no one has an opinion on this...

[bruce johnson]

To get the easier one for me out of the way first. I use woolskins. Haven't ever used felt, but would have to question some of the reasons for it. I know it was used for either supply issues (war rationing when wool was going into war production) or cost issues on lower end saddles for the most part. Not sure how much of history it has ever had.

Skirts have a few functions. One factor that is sometimes overlooked is the protection from rigging hardware and distribution of pressures of the riggings, latigos, and billets. One of those things that matching the right hardware with rigging type and skirt size and plugging would all be inter-related. No defintie answer to just skirt size without considering the other factors in play there.

[TroyWest]

I was talking with Don King one time and he made the comment that a saddle does'nt have to have skirts. Remember the old McClellands? Leather sewn right next to the bars top and bottom with no ground seat. Bob Douglas and I were talking about stripping a saddle down to be light weight and he sent me a picture of the saddle he rides. It's a tree with a ground seat, a small set of skirts that are about an inch bigger than the bars, about a 1-1/4 inch strap that goes thru the gullet and back down to an o-ring rig front rigging ring and a set of stirrup leathers and fenders. Nothing but rawhide showing on the swell and horn, and cantle back, on a wade tree. It did have an o-ring back rig as well. Pretty light weight stripped down model.

If you built your skirts 2" bigger than the bars it wouldn't hurt. Remember, pack saddles don't have skirts at all either.

Higher quality saddles do have skirts and are lined with woolskins which can help relieve pressure from riggings as Bruce mentioned. Some guys do build very stiff skirts to distribute pressure but I think a well fitted bar is the best foundation for weight distribution.

I have seen some high end reiners with a layer of dense foam under the skirts and lined with chap leather in place of woolskins. The guys that had 'em seemed to get along O.K. I dont know about long term.

A saddle shop much further south of me here in Tx. close to the coast had a problem with some bug getting in the wool and eating the wool off the skirts. Had to replace the wool so frequently they stopped using it and used felt exclusively.

A lot of those saddles came into our shop and my brother replaced the felt on some of those old saddles.

[Timbo]

This thread reminds me of one of my all time favorite saddles. It is pretty minimal but I like it and aspire to build one like it someday. If anyone knows who made it please let me know, cause for the life of me I cannot remember where I got the pic.

But it is pretty simple with small skirts and unique rigging.

Tim

Edited October 9, 2008 by Timbo

[okiwen]

Wow, I thought, now we're talking! I was going to say "just long enough to cover her butt" but when I started to read, you all were talking about saddles. I guess I'll look for another thread.

[bruce johnson]

Troy,

I guess those bugs are pretty common around the gulf coast area. I have had other guys tell me they use synthetic woolskins for that same reason. The weevils or whatever they are don't bother synthetics apparently.

I kind of remember a pleasure/reining horse trainer from the southeast, maybe Georgia promoting the foam lined saddles at the QH Congress in the late 70s. I got to take apart one of the foam lined saddles a while back. I want to say it was from Denny Sargeant or Pard's. This particular saddle had been through a few tack sales and finally a buyer noticed it was loose and wanted to see what was up with it. The fork was loose at the base. He opted for me to remove the silver for him, and just throw it away and learned "when a deal looks to good to be true...". I took off the bottom lining for grins. The foam was starting to crumble and powder in spots, much like some of the seat foams or the firmer foam in some splint and bell boots. Probably not much difference than woolskins that start to wear at pressure spots and get thin.

[daviD A Morris]

Just to add to everything that Bruce has said:

IMHO, the skirts also help keep the saddle pad or blanket in place. Many times I have just put a rigging on a tree and a pair of stirrup leathers and stirrups, and riden arround in this. The purpose has been to try out varying rigging possitions, and various trees on a variety of horses. And I can say that without skirts the saddle blankets just shoot right out the back, on every one, regardless of pad type, rigging positon, or tree. So what I have taken to doing is just make sure the rigging (what ever type D or flat plate) has just a little overhang at the top front where hte bar meets the front lip of the fork. Then I just put one stitch on each side throught the pad and the leather.

dam

[Echo4V]

Timbo, I'm not positive this is exactly the same saddle but here ya go

http://www.saddlemaker.com/1872.html

Bruce--as far as the skirts distributing the pressure from the rigging. I have seen a lot of old saddles that never had skirts under the rigging, look at the buena vista style plantation saddles for example.

TroyWest--The saddle you are describing is exactly what I have been thinking about building. I get a lot of short backed horses to ride and the big skirts that are common now a days tend to rub against hips. Especially young walking horses ( which is what I ride and therefor what I start the most of) that tend to have bonier hips than quarter horses anyway.

D-A-M--I think the reason for your blankets sliding was the lack of leather not the lack of skirts. As has been pointed out McClellans had no skirts and blankets stayed under them. A lot of the old gaited saddles also didn't have skirts. My wife rides a buena vista on her walkaloosa( it just has the bars covered and stuffed with wool like an english saddle or australian saddle) and we don't have problems with the blanket sliding.

As far as the shearling vs felt I had just noticed a lot of production saddles with the felt lately and when I got to looking I noticed it used to be offered a lot on saddles in the early 1900's

Also, I just wanted to say I appreciate all the answers to my questions. You guys are great.

David

[daviD A Morris]

D-A-M--I think the reason for your blankets sliding was the lack of leather not the lack of skirts. As has been pointed out McClellans had no skirts and blankets stayed under them. A lot of the old gaited saddles also didn't have skirts. My wife rides a buena vista on her walkaloosa( it just has the bars covered and stuffed with wool like an english saddle or australian saddle) and we don't have problems with the blanket sliding.

David

Yeh, since Troy mentioned the McClellans earlier I've been thinking about that too. I woudn't have thought that smooth-out leather on the bottoms of the McClellans would have given any more grip to a saddle pad than the rawhide on the bottom of a saddle tree. So I wonder why they always slip-out when I tried it. As I said, it has happened with a number or different Navajos and felt pads, a variety of trees and quite a few rigging positons and combinations of all of the above. What kind of saddle-blanket did the cavalry use? One day I will try covering the bottoms of the bars with just leather like a McClellan and see if that makes a difference.

Thanks

dam

Edited October 9, 2008 by daviD A Morris